Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #160 on: December 11, 2011, 08:29:PM » |
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Of course, I was hoping the accusation of "Protestantism" would soon come out of his mouth. We just needed to push him around a bit.
This bloke, Terry Caroll, is pure poison. Just reading his excuses for RCTV's intellectual cowardice makes my stomach churn.
Your constant attacks on the Pope make my stomach turn. Your anti-semitism is pretty sickening too. "Attacks on the Pope"? "Anti-semitism"? You're obviously not very aware of historical and traditional Catholicism, are you Jayne? Historically there have been many instances of schism and heresy over the years of the Church's existence. However, calling ourselves traditional Catholics does not mean we should emulate them. Certainly there's nothing "traditional" about enabling evil and sucking up to authority for authority's sake. That's your own version of Catholicism, not the real thing. Traditionally, Catholics have been known for our love of the Pope and enemies of the faith have called us "papists" and "papolaters". The Pope is the Vicar of Christ and the earthly head of the Church. Recognizing that he is owed great respect is hardly "sucking up". He is not doing anything evil so I don't have to worry about enabling him. You, however, are doing evil when you attack him. And I certainly am not enabling you. I am standing up to you and telling you to stop. No you're not. You're just acting up as you always did since you joined in. You're here to enable the revolution, I know the likes of you by heart. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Stubborn
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« Reply #161 on: December 11, 2011, 08:30:PM » |
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The idea that false religions could nevertheless have elements of truth and goodness has been part of Catholic beliefs since way back in the Patristic period. There is nothing opposed to the Catholic faith in saying that people of other religions wish to serve peace. They will not have the peace that comes with knowing Christ and Pope Benedict did not claim that they would.
Wow, that's a stretch there JayneK - does that mean it is no longer sinful to pray with them - or does it mean it never was sinful to pray with them? Or is it only ok for the pope to pray with them now - or - has it always been ok only for the pope to pray with them - - -- or - can you post any pre-V2 popes who have prayed with leaders of false religions? As I understand it, Pope Benedict did not pray with any leaders of false religions at Assisi 3. He had objected to this in the earlier meetings and made sure that it was not done at this most recent one. Do you have some evidence that he was praying with them? I would be interested to see it. Yes, he, like Pope John Paul II did pray with the other leaders and I don't mean the rosary. So, does that mean it is no longer sinful to pray with them - or does it mean it never was sinful to pray with them? Or is it only ok for the pope to pray with them now - or - has it always been ok only for the pope to pray with them - - -- or - can you post any pre-V2 popes who have prayed with leaders of false religions? |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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JayneK
Gold Fish
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Personality type: INTJ
Posts: 14,384
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« Reply #162 on: December 11, 2011, 08:32:PM » |
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Traditionally, Catholics have been known for our love of the Pope and enemies of the faith have called us "papists" and "papolaters". The Pope is the Vicar of Christ and the earthly head of the Church. Recognizing that he is owed great respect is hardly "sucking up". He is not doing anything evil so I don't have to worry about enabling him. You, however, are doing evil when you attack him. And I certainly am not enabling you. I am standing up to you and telling you to stop.
No you're not. You're just acting up as you always did since you joined in. You're here to enable the revolution, I know the likes of you by heart. I cannot deny that I have been loyal to the Pope and opposed to evil ever since I joined Fish Eaters. However I doubt that you know anyone like me. |
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ADORABLE Saviour, consider my many wants, and grant me those graces which Thou knowest I stand in need of to do Thy will in all things.
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JayneK
Gold Fish
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« Reply #163 on: December 11, 2011, 08:37:PM » |
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As I understand it, Pope Benedict did not pray with any leaders of false religions at Assisi 3. He had objected to this in the earlier meetings and made sure that it was not done at this most recent one. Do you have some evidence that he was praying with them? I would be interested to see it.
Yes, he, like Pope John Paul II did pray with the other leaders and I don't mean the rosary. So, does that mean it is no longer sinful to pray with them - or does it mean it never was sinful to pray with them? Or is it only ok for the pope to pray with them now - or - has it always been ok only for the pope to pray with them - - -- or - can you post any pre-V2 popes who have prayed with leaders of false religions? I get that you think that Pope Benedict prayed with leaders of false religions at Assisi 3. Repeating the assertion is not what I am asking for when I request evidence. For example, could you refer me to a first hand report of him doing this. |
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ADORABLE Saviour, consider my many wants, and grant me those graces which Thou knowest I stand in need of to do Thy will in all things.
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Vetus Ordo
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Personality type: Sinner
Posts: 18,069
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« Reply #164 on: December 11, 2011, 08:38:PM » |
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Traditionally, Catholics have been known for our love of the Pope and enemies of the faith have called us "papists" and "papolaters". The Pope is the Vicar of Christ and the earthly head of the Church. Recognizing that he is owed great respect is hardly "sucking up". He is not doing anything evil so I don't have to worry about enabling him. You, however, are doing evil when you attack him. And I certainly am not enabling you. I am standing up to you and telling you to stop.
No you're not. You're just acting up as you always did since you joined in. You're here to enable the revolution, I know the likes of you by heart. I cannot deny that I have been loyal to the Pope and opposed to evil ever since I joined Fish Eaters. However I doubt that you know anyone like me. Unfortunately, I do know. Your "loyalty" to the Pope is just abject servitude. There's nothing "Catholic" about it except in your own theological Shangri-La. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Stubborn
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« Reply #165 on: December 11, 2011, 08:42:PM » |
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As I understand it, Pope Benedict did not pray with any leaders of false religions at Assisi 3. He had objected to this in the earlier meetings and made sure that it was not done at this most recent one. Do you have some evidence that he was praying with them? I would be interested to see it.
Yes, he, like Pope John Paul II did pray with the other leaders and I don't mean the rosary. So, does that mean it is no longer sinful to pray with them - or does it mean it never was sinful to pray with them? Or is it only ok for the pope to pray with them now - or - has it always been ok only for the pope to pray with them - - -- or - can you post any pre-V2 popes who have prayed with leaders of false religions? I get that you think that Pope Benedict prayed with leaders of false religions at Assisi 3. Repeating the assertion is not what I am asking for when I request evidence. For example, could you refer me to a first hand report of him doing this. No, I can't. Whether he did or not, the questions remain the same - I simply reference Pope John Paul II. So, does that mean it is no longer sinful to pray with them - or does it mean it never was sinful to pray with them? Or is it only ok for the pope to pray with them now - or - has it always been ok only for the pope to pray with them - - -- or - can you post any pre-V2 popes who have prayed with leaders of false religions? |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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JMartyr
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« Reply #166 on: December 11, 2011, 08:48:PM » |
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Speaking in St Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, Pope Benedict said the aim of the [upcoming October] summit would be to "to solemnly renew the effort of those with faith of all religions to live their faith as a service for the cause of peace"…. He said the summit would also "honour the memory of the historical event promoted by my predecessor". (Jan. 1, 2011)
How are people of false religions living their faith going to bring peace? Only Jesus Christ is the Prince Of Peace. Only HIs Religion and His Commandments can bring peace.
The idea that false religions could nevertheless have elements of truth and goodness has been part of Catholic beliefs since way back in the Patristic period. There is nothing opposed to the Catholic faith in saying that people of other religions wish to serve peace. They will not have the peace that comes with knowing Christ and Pope Benedict did not claim that they would. ]"to live their faith as a service for the cause of peace." Then what does this mean? They think that peace is a good idea within the framework of their religious beliefs. Divorce, polygamy, abortion, persecution of Catholics. Some kind of peace. |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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JayneK
Gold Fish
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Personality type: INTJ
Posts: 14,384
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« Reply #167 on: December 11, 2011, 08:52:PM » |
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I get that you think that Pope Benedict prayed with leaders of false religions at Assisi 3. Repeating the assertion is not what I am asking for when I request evidence. For example, could you refer me to a first hand report of him doing this.
No, I can't. Whether he did or not, the questions remain the same - I simply reference Pope John Paul II. So, does that mean it is no longer sinful to pray with them - or does it mean it never was sinful to pray with them? Or is it only ok for the pope to pray with them now - or - has it always been ok only for the pope to pray with them - - -- or - can you post any pre-V2 popes who have prayed with leaders of false religions? It is usually sinful for Catholics to pray with non-Catholics, but I can think of exceptions. I have prayed with non-Catholics at abortion clinics and I don't think that was sinful. But what about your behaviour? You have been assuming that Pope Benedict was doing this sinful thing and posting as if he had and yet you have no evidence that it even happened. Do you think it is right to just assume that anyone, let alone the Pope, has committed a sin? Do you think it is right to spread rumours like this if you do not know for sure it is true? |
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ADORABLE Saviour, consider my many wants, and grant me those graces which Thou knowest I stand in need of to do Thy will in all things.
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JMartyr
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Posts: 1,610
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« Reply #168 on: December 11, 2011, 09:07:PM » |
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@gerard
I think the fence sitting catholics would get more benefit from showing them the right way to be Catholic, living by example and gently correcting their errors, not by screaming at them.
I find that reaching a hand out to help them over to the right side is a good thing, while giving them a good shove over to the wrong side a bad thing. Hysteria is polarizing, and a bad way to convert our own.
Encouraging them to live their soul- damning faith is not going to convert them either. She was talking about encouraging Catholics to become more fervent. Do you think that Catholicism is a soul-damning faith? No , the false religions that Pope Benedict basically encourages by saying "to live their faith as a service for the cause of peace"…. |
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" When I think that we are in the building of the Holy Office, the outstanding witness of Tradition and defender of the Catholic Faith, I cannot help thinking that I am on my own territory and that it is I whom you call ' the traditionalist' who should be judging you." - quote from Archbishop Lefebvre when questioned by the CDF
"Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer are the two great saints of the modern Church. Once this catastrophe ends they will be instantly canonized." - Father Malachi Martin
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Stubborn
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Posts: 5,017
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« Reply #169 on: December 11, 2011, 09:14:PM » |
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I get that you think that Pope Benedict prayed with leaders of false religions at Assisi 3. Repeating the assertion is not what I am asking for when I request evidence. For example, could you refer me to a first hand report of him doing this.
No, I can't. Whether he did or not, the questions remain the same - I simply reference Pope John Paul II. So, does that mean it is no longer sinful to pray with them - or does it mean it never was sinful to pray with them? Or is it only ok for the pope to pray with them now - or - has it always been ok only for the pope to pray with them - - -- or - can you post any pre-V2 popes who have prayed with leaders of false religions? It is usually sinful for Catholics to pray with non-Catholics, but I can think of exceptions. I have prayed with non-Catholics at abortion clinics and I don't think that was sinful. But what about your behaviour? You have been assuming that Pope Benedict was doing this sinful thing and posting as if he had and yet you have no evidence that it even happened. Do you think it is right to just assume that anyone, let alone the Pope, has committed a sin? Do you think it is right to spread rumours like this if you do not know for sure it is true? You have not answered my questions. |
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It is the Mass that matters.
But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse 3:16
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