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Author Topic: Michael Voris just put out his 5th video on the 50th Anniversary of VII  (Read 10149 times)
Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2011, 11:27:AM »

What pig? Nobody here, not I, not RCTV, have suggested that we dress up falsehood as truth, or make evil seem good.

RCTV's failure to tackle the errors of Vatican II, including the pope's, is more than ample proof that they do love the pig with lipstick. Pig with no lipstick? Bad. Pig with lipstick? Good.

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You may think for bad reason, but they have a reason. I am on the fence about it. The danger for RCTv is preaching to the converted and creating an atmosphere that is sometimes apparent here of a boys club where everybody knows who they're poking fun at today and that's that.

Yes, truth is very "dangerous." People can't handle it. Voris is the new Col. Jessup.

See where that despicable attitude lead us to.

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Huh? Not reporting = covering up? They chose not to report. They didn't cover it up.

"Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it; and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them." -Pope St. Felix III

Daunting concept, I know.

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Sigh. An example of what I mentioned. You just had to finish off your post with a stab at me didn't ya?

Yeah man, because, like, totally, I love that people hate the truth. The likes of myself just loves that people hate authentic Catholicism. You sir, are sharp.

Your initial post speaks for itself. I didn't stab you, you stabbed yourself.

Yes, like, "totally."

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You think that the virtue of Charity is something to be scoffed at? You find charity to be nothing but a pretty word? How sad. You hide behind a true work of mercy (admonishing the sinner/correcting error) but you do it without love and you do it to be right rather than to bring others to Christ. Your preoccupation with accusing others of all things unholy is testament to this.

You obviously have no idea what charity means.

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Maybe I am wrong, but you seem to take pleasure in having something to whine and moan about - that everytime a new thread comes up which is an example of how bad things have become you give a wry smile and think "but of course, what else!".

Yes, you're right.

I love that the Church is run by modernists so that I have something to moan about. You got me there.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 12:04:PM by Vetus Ordo » Logged

"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)

"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome

"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
Jackson K. Eskew
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« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2011, 01:22:PM »

Oh yes, a big thank you to Jackson K. for the work he has done that resulted in Mr. Carroll posting on this thread. Excellent job, well done.

You're most welcome. I bid you cheers!
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Jackson K. Eskew
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« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2011, 01:33:PM »

Vetus, apparently you've yet to learn that when the house is burning down we're to adopt a sunny disposition.

"Voris is the new Col. Jessup."

Perfect. From now on I'll be referring to Voris as Col. Jessup. "You can't handle the truth!" This is at the core of RealCatholicTV's philosophy as laid out by executive producer Terry Carroll.
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O age, thou art shamed.*
O shame, where is thy blush?**

-Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**
colombiano
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Posts: 19


« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2011, 02:04:PM »

Quote
You think that the virtue of Charity is something to be scoffed at? You find charity to be nothing but a pretty word? How sad. You hide behind a true work of mercy (admonishing the sinner/correcting error) but you do it without love and you do it to be right rather than to bring others to Christ. Your preoccupation with accusing others of all things unholy is testament to this.


It takes love and true charity to fight for the truth knowing that at the same time there will be people like you who will judge one's intentions..........something that should only be reserved to God.
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AlphaOmega
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« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2011, 02:11:PM »

"You can't handle the truth!" This is at the core of RealCatholicTV's philosophy

But Mr. Carroll responded to this idea already.  If I may paraphrase, it seems that RCTV sees value in presenting traditional Catholic teaching to its viewers, in order that we may know better when our priests and bishops are saying or doing things that are inconsistent with that teaching.  This is a good thing, and as RCTV pointed out, we do have recourse (to Rome) when the shepherds in our parish or diocese are leading us astray.

RCTV does not see value in covering Assisi because a) not much happened there, and b) people might get the wrong idea (e.g. that the Pope thinks all religions are equal, which we know the Pope doesn't believe) and they would have less respect for him, and possibly his office.  We must always respect his office, but this can be made more difficult for some people if they start to lose respect for the man.  The Church has had bad Popes before, and we will have them again, but we cannot "vote him out" of office; there is no recourse to a higher power.  The Pope is our Holy Father and we can't change that, any more than we can change our biological father.  Sure, a traditionally-minded Cardinal should correct the Holy Father when he does something unbecoming -- as Paul corrected Peter -- but it doesn't do much good for us to dwell on these things, especially when -- as in this case -- there isn't much to discuss.

So RCTV judged that there would be no benefit to having a Vortex on Assisi, and that their time and energy was better-used on other things (like their current series on Vatican II 50 years later).  After reading Mr. Carroll's reasoning, I think RCTV made the right choice.


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SPB
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« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2011, 02:13:PM »

It takes love and true charity to fight for the truth knowing that at the same time there will be people like you who will judge one's intentions..........something that should only be reserved to God.

I agree that it takes courage, love and charity to fight for truth. That doesn't mean that all who fight, or that every fight, will be an example of those virtues. It's funny you mention judging intentions - that happens a lot on this forum yet it is often excused.

In any case lest it seem like I detest this forum or any of it's members I must say that it is a great place to be and I am very grateful to be able to post here and sometimes myself be a bit of a hypocrite and do exactly what I have criticized.
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TraditionalistThomas
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« Reply #86 on: November 25, 2011, 06:13:AM »

It's unattractive because many join thinking it's a lovely trad forum where we discuss the old Liturgy and practices of the Church. What the forum seems to be is full of Sedevacantists and Anti-Rome 'Traditionalists' who seem to do absolutely nothing but bash the Church and the Pope on these boards. It's hardly inspiring.

Your problem is that you think that traditional Catholicism is just about the old liturgy and ancient practices when in fact it's about the purity of faith.

Until you realise that, you'll always find discussions here "unattractive" and the tackling of real issues "bashing the pope." Perhaps Voris and the cover-up mentality of RCTV are more suited to you.

Your problem is that you think if you aren't calling someone else a neo-conservative modernist flirting-with-heresy NO loving hippy that you don't give a hoot about the purity of the faith.

Until you realise that the discussion of purity of faith can be done with charity, prudence and an ability to pick the right battles - and most especially with both eyes fixed on the Lord and seeing Him as the end rather than Tradition as the end- you will find anybody who is not up to your arbitrary and man made standard to be utterly repugnant (an attitude which unfortunately I see in many of your posts here). People are not stupid as you think. They can see through people who rebuke them with no love. Love is what must drive us. Love of Christ and of our fellow Catholics who need to know and understand as we are fortunate enough to. Time and place, with a dash of tact and meekness but the strength and the armour of Christ.

I'm glad that somebody on here understands.
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My hope is in Christ, who strengthens the weakest by His Divine help. I can do all in Him who strengthens me. His Power is infinite, and if I lean on him, it will be mine. His Wisdom is infinite, and if I look to Him for counsel, I shall not be deceived. His Goodness is infinite, and if my trust is stayed in Him, I shall not be abandoned.

-- Pope Saint Pius X

For those born after Pius XII, a strong, good Pope is a history lesson and a hope for the future, not a reality we've ever lived. - Gerard
mlwalker1972
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« Reply #87 on: November 25, 2011, 07:33:AM »

I think RealCatholicTV's position has a point. 

There was a time when I had fallen away from the Church.  Thanks to many circumstances, including my wonderful wife and the birth of my daughter (whom I want to get to heaven above all else, along with my other children now), I began the process of returning to the faith.  I could easily just "walk through the doors and into the confessional", something I did, but the "process" involved dying to myself - especially letting go of all my favorite pet sins.  Of which I had way too many :(

At this point, there was someone in my life that kept attacking the pope, and in my mind it created confusion:  Why join the Catholic Church?  Apparently they've just fallen into heresy with everyone else!  There are all the trad groups, but they don't like each other - the sedes, SSPX (where I had attended as a child), Institute of Christ the King, etc.  All in their own camps.  Kind of like --- Protestants!

I'm not trying to attack anyone here, just describing the frustration and confusion that person was sewing in my heart as I was returning.  I finally told him what he was doing, and that maybe my faith wasn't as strong as his, but that it made me just want to "give up".  I didn't have problems with bishops and priests becoming heretical, but that since my understanding was "Where Rome is, there is the Church", that if "Rome was heretical, then there is no way I could know the Truth".

He apologized, and actually became a huge support in my conversion.

Perhaps those here who have stronger faith than I had at the time cannot see this.  They didn't experience it.  But in Mr. Carrol's responses, that is basically what they are saying.  That they do not want to push people like me away.

RCTV is not perfect.  But, then again, neither is anyone on here.  We are all horrible sinners.  If we lose sight of that, then all the knowledge in the world won't get us to heaven.  But as I was in my conversion, or rather re-version, process, RCTV's attitude would not have pushed me away from the faith.  A more "fully-trad" RCTV equivalent would have, because that attitude is what almost made me say "forget it".

Anyways, I am very thankful to God that I did come back.  Not only has my coming back to the faith filled my household with joy, by getting rid of the sins and letting our house flourish as a Catholic household.  It has also filled it with beautiful children.  We went from one child, now almost old enough to drive, to seven, and by God's grace, maybe more in the future Smile 

I am not as knowledgable about Catholic history as many on here, but I have learned enough in this past decade that I helped a friend return to the faith, and his wife and two sons also joined (his wife and kids hadn't even been baptized).  My wife and I are witnessing to another family friend, and while she has not yet "swum the Tiber", she has gone from believing all the "lies and falsehoods" about Catholicism she was reading in the New York Times, and watching on CNN, to saying that she respects the teachings of the Church, and that she really does like the pope now.  Hey, it's a start Smile  She's even come to Mass with us a few times!

In all of this, I kind of take RCTV's stance.  I have pointed out that there is a struggle in the Church over teachings, etc, but that we know what the true teachings are because of Tradition, and that because Holy Mother Church is preserved from error in this area, we know that if what is taught today contradicts yesterday, then that teaching is false.  If there is any confusion, read Aquinas, or Augustine, etc...

What I have chosen not to do is criticize the Pope, or Rome, even though I know there is much to be critical about in this day and age.  I don't want to sew the kind of confusion in her heart (or my other friend's heart) that I myself experienced.

Anyways, my two cents.

God Bless
-Martin

EDIT: fixed typos
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 06:41:PM by mlwalker1972 » Logged
Jackson K. Eskew
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« Reply #88 on: November 25, 2011, 02:44:PM »

we know what the true teachings are because of Tradition, and that because Holy Mother Church is preserved in error in this area, we know that if what is taught today contradicts yesterday, then that teaching is false. 

Thus Dignitatis humanae, for instance, is false.
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O age, thou art shamed.*
O shame, where is thy blush?**

-Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**
TraditionalistThomas
Banned for being an ass
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Gender: Male
Location: Australia
Personality type: Choleric
Posts: 808



« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2011, 06:47:PM »

we know what the true teachings are because of Tradition, and that because Holy Mother Church is preserved in error in this area, we know that if what is taught today contradicts yesterday, then that teaching is false. 

Thus Dignitatis humanae, for instance, is false.


Just, wow. Are you CMRI?
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My hope is in Christ, who strengthens the weakest by His Divine help. I can do all in Him who strengthens me. His Power is infinite, and if I lean on him, it will be mine. His Wisdom is infinite, and if I look to Him for counsel, I shall not be deceived. His Goodness is infinite, and if my trust is stayed in Him, I shall not be abandoned.

-- Pope Saint Pius X

For those born after Pius XII, a strong, good Pope is a history lesson and a hope for the future, not a reality we've ever lived. - Gerard
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