The Devil made me do it.....

[alaric]

Of course we all heard of this at least one time in our lives.

I'm just curious is this actually a serious belief in Church doctrine or something?

Does Satan himself (Or any other malevolent being for that matter) actually force his will on any of us mortals? And why would an almighty, righteous God allow this?

Especially those loyal to him.

I believe that we're all given free will to do as we choose. The devil doesn't "make" us do squat.

That is just a convenient excuse for people not to take accountability for their actions.

Any thoughts on this?

[Old Salt]

Of course we all heard of this at least one time in our lives.

I'm just curious is this actually a serious belief in Church doctrine or something?

Does Satan himself (Or any other malevolent being for that matter) actually force his will on any of us mortals? And why would an almighty, righteous God allow this?

Especially those loyal to him.

I believe that we're all given free will to do as we choose. The devil doesn't "make" us do squat.

That is just a convenient excuse for people not to take accountability for their actions.

Any thoughts on this?

The Church has always taught that no one, be it human or angelic or Divne, can force our will to do anything.
We as individuals decide on our own to choose God or Satan, Good or Evil.
Satan or devils cannot make us do anything.
They can tempt, obsess or even posess, but never can they control the will.
This is De Fide teaching.

[alaric]

Of course we all heard of this at least one time in our lives.

I'm just curious is this actually a serious belief in Church doctrine or something?

Does Satan himself (Or any other malevolent being for that matter) actually force his will on any of us mortals? And why would an almighty, righteous God allow this?

Especially those loyal to him.

I believe that we're all given free will to do as we choose. The devil doesn't "make" us do squat.

That is just a convenient excuse for people not to take accountability for their actions.

Any thoughts on this?

The Church has always taught that no one, be it human or angelic or Divne, can force our will to do anything.
We as individuals decide on our own to choose God or Satan, Good or Evil.
Satan or devils cannot make us do anything.
They can tempt, obsess or even posess, but never can they control the will.
This is De Fide teaching.

But if these malevolent spirits do indeed "posses" an individual do they not in effect "make" them do evil and sinful things?

And again, why would a loving and caring god allow this to one of his children?

This never did sit right with me,

[Old Salt]

Of course we all heard of this at least one time in our lives.

I'm just curious is this actually a serious belief in Church doctrine or something?

Does Satan himself (Or any other malevolent being for that matter) actually force his will on any of us mortals? And why would an almighty, righteous God allow this?

Especially those loyal to him.

I believe that we're all given free will to do as we choose. The devil doesn't "make" us do squat.

That is just a convenient excuse for people not to take accountability for their actions.

Any thoughts on this?

The Church has always taught that no one, be it human or angelic or Divne, can force our will to do anything.
We as individuals decide on our own to choose God or Satan, Good or Evil.
Satan or devils cannot make us do anything.
They can tempt, obsess or even posess, but never can they control the will.
This is De Fide teaching.

But if these malevolent spirits do indeed "posses" an individual do they not in effect "make" them do evil and sinful things?

And again, why would a loving and caring god allow this to one of his children?

This never did sit right with me,

Catholic exorcists, the world over, state that when they encounter possesssed people, the person always has to ask the priest to excorcise them.
In other words, the persons will must be free to ask for the rite, for the excorcism to even work.
The demonic manifestations that occur in possessed people [knowing things the person could not possibly know, the horrible smells, levitating,foul language] are not of the persons free will, they are purely of the devil
The possesed person has, at some point willed to be possesed, in some way.
The Devil cannot force himself on the person without someone willing it.
An exorcist will almost invariably ask the possesed person, at some point in the excorsim, to make a willed choice for God or Satan, their will being free still

The reason why God allows this is mostly a mystery to me, except God always allows[permits] evil to bring a greater good from it

[alaric]

Why would a most holy and righteous God "allow" evil to befall his children at all? To bring about a "greater good"?

This really goes against rational thinking at the end of the day.

Why (if I could) would I allow some demon to run hog wild on one of my children just to prove a point?

That's about as sick as it gets.

I'm not getting all this, I guess the skeptic in me forces me to find the answers to all this.

I would love to hear some clarification.

[Old Salt]

Why would a most holy and righteous God "allow" evil to befall his children at all? To bring about a "greater good"?

This really goes against rational thinking at the end of the day.

Why (if I could) would I allow some demon to run hog wild on one of my children just to prove a point?

That's about as sick as it gets.

I'm not getting all this, I guess the skeptic in me forces me to find the answers to all this.

I would love to hear some clarification.

Why would a most holy and righteous God "allow" evil to befall his children at all? To bring about a "greater good"?

This really goes against rational thinking at the end of the day.

Why (if I could) would I allow some demon to run hog wild on one of my children just to prove a point?

That's about as sick as it gets.

I'm not getting all this, I guess the skeptic in me forces me to find the answers to all this.

I would love to hear some clarification.

I have no idea why my previous last five lines are crossed out.
I did not do it.

To briefly answer your question; God does not damn anyone to Hell.
The individulal freely choses. [Believe it or not there are many people that of their own free will, say no to Gods Will]
Yes, God wants all His children to be saved and He loves them.
Part of this Love is made manifest in His giving us free will to chose freely.
We can chose Him or not.
God never forces anyone to do antything, He loves us so much that He wants us to freely chose Him.
Would anyone want their spouse to be forced into marriage with him?
No. We want our spouse to willingly chosse us, or not.
This is a huge aspect of Love.
Similarly,
God does not let us become possessed of His own Will.
The possed man chooses, freely chooses to be possesed them selves.

One example is from a great book by Fr Malachi Martin called "Hostage to the Devil" where Fr Martin recounts five true excorcisms that took place.
In all of the possessd persons cases, the individuals, women and men, chose to give themselves freely to the Devil.One man who was very brilliant with extrasensory gifts chose to use his gifts to "discover" the "true meaning of Christianity through astral travel and parapschycolgy.
He reached a point where he knew he was relinquishing his mind [not his will] to 'another being" And then he became possessed and he manifested horrible things.

[alaric]

You gave me a lot of answers but none of the question I asked.

Why would it be necessary for God to let a demon torture one of his children in order to "bring a greater good"?

I'm sure Jesus is his greatest example of this. But why is bloodletting necessary for any kind of redemption?

And if Satan and his cohorts are truly the epitome of all things unholy, pray tell why God allow these things anywhere near the members of his body?

I thought the "gates of hell" would never prevail anywhere in the presence of Christ. (The Church)

As for those lines crossed out in your post.....well maybe the evil one doesn't want me reading your answers. 

[Old Salt]

You gave me a lot of answers but none of the question I asked.

Why would it be necessary for God to let a demon torture one of his children in order to "bring a greater good"?

I'm sure Jesus is his greatest example of this. But why is bloodletting necessary for any kind of redemption?

And if Satan and his cohorts are truly the epitome of all things holy, pray tell why God allow these things anywhere near the members of his body?

I thought the "gates of hell" would never prevail anywhere in the presence of Christ. (The Church)

As for those lines crossed out in your post.....well maybe the evil one doesn't want me reading your answers. 

Sorry I did not answer your question.
Men chose evil over good of their own free will which God does not interfere with.
We know this from all creation and the Fall.
Christ does not make the person become possessd, but rather the person wills it.
God permits this horrible evil, to make the person convert to the Catholic Faith or become a better Catholic.
Why did God permit 9/11?
Why did God permit WWI and II
Why does God permit the greatest of all evils, worse than any possession, namely the slaughter of 100's of millions through the murder of abortion?

Christ sais The Gates of Hell would not prevail, meaning the Church as a whole will never fall to Satan, this does not mean that individual members of the Church cannot fall.
Also, remember that many who become possessed are not Catholic, and they do not have the grace filled protection of the sacraments.

[Someone1776]

Alaric, your basically posing the old problem of evil question: if God is all good why is there evil in the world?

I don't think we're going to solve this problem here on Fish Eaters after 3,000 years of people asking it.

But, free will is part of the answer. God saw fit to give us free will and we choose to do evil.

[alaric]

You gave me a lot of answers but none of the question I asked.

Why would it be necessary for God to let a demon torture one of his children in order to "bring a greater good"?

I'm sure Jesus is his greatest example of this. But why is bloodletting necessary for any kind of redemption?

And if Satan and his cohorts are truly the epitome of all things holy, pray tell why God allow these things anywhere near the members of his body?

I thought the "gates of hell" would never prevail anywhere in the presence of Christ. (The Church)

As for those lines crossed out in your post.....well maybe the evil one doesn't want me reading your answers. 

Sorry I did not answer your question.
Men chose evil over good of their own free will which God does not interfere with.
We know this from all creation and the Fall.
Christ does not make the person become possessd, but rather the person wills it.
God permits this horrible evil, to make the person convert to the Catholic Faith or become a better Catholic.
Why did God permit 9/11?
Why did God permit WWI and II
Why does God permit the greatest of all evils, worse than any possession, namely the slaughter of 100's of millions through the murder of abortion?

Christ sais The Gates of Hell would not prevail, meaning the Church as a whole will never fall to Satan, this does not mean that individual members of the Church cannot fall.
Also, remember that many who become possessed are not Catholic, and they do not have the grace filled protection of the sacraments.

Well permitting evil is one thing but how do you explain things like God "hardening" Pharaohs heart just when the ol boy was going to let the Hebes of the hook in Egypt?

I guess they had to suffer too in order to bring a greater good.

And what about Satan entering poor Judas so he made sure he cut the deal selling him out the Pharisees.

Some of this stuff brings up a lot of ugly questions most of us don't like to ask.

Problem is, I'm not like most people or Catholics for that matter.