The Devil made me do it.....

[alaric]

Satan does not do God's dirty work. God is all good and never does evil.

Alaric, I don't want to sound condescending but the line of thinking your having here could destroy your faith. I'd suggest talking to a traditional priest about these questions.

I guess that is a possibility in searching for the truth.

I always accepted my faith and church on the grounds of Christ being just what he said; The Truth.

I don't have much use for Christianity or Christians outside of the parameters of Jesus being pure truth and pure light.

But if asking questions should make me "evil" in some way then there's a problem here.

Sadly enough I really distrust priests more than anything these days. these holy men have done more to eradicate my faith than the worst atheist.

[Someone1776]

Asking questions isn't evil, but Satan very much wants us to doubt to the point of abandoning the faith. There are certain things we accept on faith and can't question. One of them is that God is all good. As I said many theologians have tackled the problem of evil, so it isn't necessarily a bad thing to think about.  But you should ask if you are in the right state of mind to look at this problem as well as if you have the needed theological background.

It is horrible that so many priests have disgraced their office. The priest that baptized me and gave me some of my first religious training as a child turned out to be a pedophile (fortunately I was never left alone with him). Sadly there have been many such priests in the history of the church.  However, most priests are not pedophiles. That said all priests are sinners. If you expect a priest to be a superhero you will be dissapointed. Despite this priests are with traditional training are going to understand the faith better than you and will be able to help your faith grow better than anyone. Many saints have said it can be very humbling to confess to a priest that one knows is a great sinner (although I don't think they had child molesters in mind).

Anyway, it is a hard time for the Church. It always has. Though the church is served by imperfect men it is guided by the Holy Spirit. Don't forget that.

[Someone1776]

I am also reminded of the passage in Job where God responds to Job's request that God explain why so much evil had fallen upon him, a good man:

Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? Tell me if thou hast understanding.

[Traditional Guy]

.

Sadly enough I really distrust priests more than anything these days. these holy men have done more to eradicate my faith than the worst atheist.

I understand alaric. We've seen homosexuals and child molestors become priests and Authority has done nothing to stop this. We've all exprienced doubts. I will pray for you.

[StrictCatholicGirl]

Well, if one is actually possessed then the devil IS making him do "it" -- even if he's not culpable for "it." My understanding always was that anyone with the Holy Spirit could not be possessed.. This comes from the Gospel. The Pharisees accused Jesus of performing his miracles and exorcisms through the power of Beelzebub. Jesus said a house divided amongst itself could not stand, and told the Pharisees that they had committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit and the devil cannot reside in the same person. Not to my way of thinking. If one is trying to lead a good Catholic life and is receiving the sacraments devoutly and regularly, he cannot become possessed. Oppressed, yes (if God allows it, like he did with Job and some of the saints). Possessed, no.

Otherwise, the devil can only tempt us. He cannot control us. But I believe Judas was possessed after he paid the high priests the blood money. The scriptures say that "Satan entered him." He gave the devil a gateway. Then what happened? He fell into despair and killed himself. No doubt the devil told him his sin was too great to be forgiven. That's the devil's last playing card.

[James02]

Well permitting evil is one thing but how do you explain things like God "hardening" Pharaohs heart just when the ol boy was going to let the Hebes of the hook in Egypt?

Pharaoh was a pagan.  Who knows all the sick things he did.  He certainly was treating the Jews poorly.  If God had instead struck him down with lightning, would you protest?  So God used him, an evil pagan, for His plan.  Nowhere does it say Pharaoh suffered more in hell for what he did AFTER God hardened his heart.

As far as the possessed, I have read that sins they commit while possessed are not culpable to them.  And most cases of possession involve getting involved with spells and crap. 

And we have God wiping out the Caananites, even women and children.  Of course they were busy throwing their babies into the furnaces of Moloch:

And whilst they were diminished for a manifest reproof of their murdering the infants, thou gavest to thine abundant water unlooked for: [9] shewing by the thirst that was then, how thou didst exalt thine, and didst kill their adversaries.

But the children and women are now in eternity.  Those children killed are better off in Limbo, then if they had lived and ended up in hell.  In the end we will understand the Justice and Mercy of God.

[formerbuddhist]

Well permitting evil is one thing but how do you explain things like God "hardening" Pharaohs heart just when the ol boy was going to let the Hebes of the hook in Egypt?

Pharaoh was a pagan.  Who knows all the sick things he did.  He certainly was treating the Jews poorly.  If God had instead struck him down with lightning, would you protest?  So God used him, an evil pagan, for His plan.  Nowhere does it say Pharaoh suffered more in hell for what he did AFTER God hardened his heart.

As far as the possessed, I have read that sins they commit while possessed are not culpable to them.  And most cases of possession involve getting involved with spells and crap. 

And we have God wiping out the Caananites, even women and children.  Of course they were busy throwing their babies into the furnaces of Moloch:

And whilst they were diminished for a manifest reproof of their murdering the infants, thou gavest to thine abundant water unlooked for: [9] shewing by the thirst that was then, how thou didst exalt thine, and didst kill their adversaries.

But the children and women are now in eternity.  Those children killed are better off in Limbo, then if they had lived and ended up in hell.  In the end we will understand the Justice and Mercy of God.

[/b]

The part I highlighted really says it all for me. Right now we cannot make sense of certain things the way we would like to but in eternity it will all become clear. The way I see it if we try to remain humble before God and trust that indeed "our ways are not His ways" then we can carry on with faith and not be disturbed at the apparent triumph of evil in the world.

[Silouan]

From St Theophan the Recluse:

Satan entered into Judas, and taught him how to betray the Lord; he agreed, and betrayed Him. Satan entered because the door was opened for him. What is within us is always closed; the Lord Himself stands outside and knocks, that we might open. What causes it to open? It is opened by sympathy, predisposition, or agreement. If all of this is inclined in the direction of the Lord, He enters. If satan enters, and not the Lord, the person himself is guilty. If you do not allow thoughts pleasing to satan, if you do not sympathize with them, or dispose yourself to their suggestions and agree to do them, satan walks nearby and then leaves, for he is not given power over anyone. If he takes possession of anyone, it is because that person gives himself over in slavery to him. The source of all evil is one’s thoughts. Do not allow bad thoughts and you will forever close the door of your soul to satan. That bad thoughts come—what can you do? Nobody on the earth is without them; there is no sin here. Chase them away, and that will end everything. If they come again, chase them away again—and so on for your entire life. When you accept thoughts and become engaged in them, it is not surprising that sympathy toward them appears as well; then they become even more persistent. After sympathy come bad intentions either for these or other bad deeds. Vague intentions then define themselves by an inclination toward one thing or another. Choice, agreement and resoluteness set in, and then sin is within! The door of the heart is opened wide. As soon as agreement forms, satan jumps in and begins to tyrannize. Then the poor soul is driven wearisomely like a slave or a pack-animal into doing indecent things. If it had not allowed bad thoughts, nothing of the sort would have happened.

[Jackson K. Eskew]

From St Theophan the Recluse:

Satan entered into Judas, and taught him how to betray the Lord; he agreed, and betrayed Him. Satan entered because the door was opened for him. What is within us is always closed; the Lord Himself stands outside and knocks, that we might open. What causes it to open? It is opened by sympathy, predisposition, or agreement. If all of this is inclined in the direction of the Lord, He enters. If satan enters, and not the Lord, the person himself is guilty. If you do not allow thoughts pleasing to satan, if you do not sympathize with them, or dispose yourself to their suggestions and agree to do them, satan walks nearby and then leaves, for he is not given power over anyone. If he takes possession of anyone, it is because that person gives himself over in slavery to him.

The source of all evil is one’s thoughts. Do not allow bad thoughts and you will forever close the door of your soul to satan. That bad thoughts come—what can you do? Nobody on the earth is without them; there is no sin here. Chase them away, and that will end everything. If they come again, chase them away again—and so on for your entire life. When you accept thoughts and become engaged in them, it is not surprising that sympathy toward them appears as well; then they become even more persistent. After sympathy come bad intentions either for these or other bad deeds. Vague intentions then define themselves by an inclination toward one thing or another. Choice, agreement and resoluteness set in, and then sin is within! The door of the heart is opened wide. As soon as agreement forms, satan jumps in and begins to tyrannize. Then the poor soul is driven wearisomely like a slave or a pack-animal into doing indecent things. If it had not allowed bad thoughts, nothing of the sort would have happened.[/list]

Which reminds me:

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20111016-Bad-Thoughts-and-Their-Remedies.html

[DrBombay]

Alaric, I think the main point being made here is don't think too much.  And anything you can't understand you must simply accept on faith.  Never, ever let facts get in the way of faith.  Theologians have been discussing this stuff for thousands of years and since they still haven't come up with an answer, you just need to suck it up and BELIEVE.  Thinking too much is just painful.