Spear Hunting

[JoeVoxxPop]

Thank you HR! That is exactly what I want to know.
Is a shot gun the best beginner weapon, or a scoped rifle. I am a pretty good shot at targets.


And gutting a deer seems incredibly difficult in my mind....any pointers? Its one of the things that makes me procastinate.

Have you taken hunter safety classes?

no but I will, I think its required in PA. No sense doing it till I actually think I will go out.

Well,you can't go out till you do the course and sit the exam.Very easy. I would do this and just get it out of the way.Done for life then.Classes tend to fill up early.You may need to book months in advance.

I dont think its that hard here in PA?

[Habitual_Ritual]

Thank you HR! That is exactly what I want to know.
Is a shot gun the best beginner weapon, or a scoped rifle. I am a pretty good shot at targets.


And gutting a deer seems incredibly difficult in my mind....any pointers? Its one of the things that makes me procastinate.

Have you taken hunter safety classes?

no but I will, I think its required in PA. No sense doing it till I actually think I will go out.

Well,you can't go out till you do the course and sit the exam.Very easy. I would do this and just get it out of the way.Done for life then.Classes tend to fill up early.You may need to book months in advance.

I dont think its that hard here in PA?

Check your Outdoor News paper for local class listings,phone up and ask em how soon classes fill up.

[matthew_talbot]

Thank you HR! That is exactly what I want to know.
Is a shot gun the best beginner weapon, or a scoped rifle. I am a pretty good shot at targets.


And gutting a deer seems incredibly difficult in my mind....any pointers? Its one of the things that makes me procastinate.

many areas in the USA are "zoned" for either shotgun or rifle. It is getting more and more rare to see double zones these days (especially in many parts of the North East.

[Vlad Tepes]

It really has nothing to do with needless control.

Most of our ancestors going back multiple generations, never picked up a spear.

Not sure if you hunt or not VP, but one of the bedrock ethics in hunting is quickly and humanely killing game. Rifles, shotguns, handguns and bows are adept tools in accomplishing this, provided the hunter has the requisite training and practice with their weapon of choice.

A spear is much more likely to wound and/or maim,  than kill cleanly. Even if the animal were to die; it would be, more often than not, after a prolonged period of suffering.

Hence the ban in most states.

I am a very experienced hunter as well as a hunting safety educator and certifier. I am as pro-hunting as an individual can be. But the idea of liberalizing spear hunting is a bad one.

I don't think it should be any different for spears to be honest. Even with bows, you shoot the bloody thing then you have to wait for it to bleed out, you fall the blood trail and you find the body. While running, invariably the arrow head is still inflicting damage within the animal; not to mention, even with an experienced hunter you're not always going to get that clean kill shot, same with spears. Throwing a spear accurately and hitting a kill shot takes practice just as it takes practice to become proficient at any weapon to the point of lethality, Either way, the animal will suffer, whether you're killing it with a bow, crossbow or spear or even firearms, the fact of the matter is, you're taking a life, you're causing another life-form to die, that is never and will never be pleasant no matter how clean or precise you try to do it. I however will recognize the potential of possible harming or maiming the animal however again, I don't think it's any different from any other weapon of choice. We're dealing in unknown, unknowns and with every hunt there will inherently be numerous variables which will steer it in any direction, change one of those variables you change the precise outcome of the hunt. My point is, if given the proper training and safety courses and so on like any other weapon, if given that it's a fairly accurate throw which has pierced a vital area of the beast, I don't see how it would necessarily be any different from say, bow or crossbow hunting.

I mean, even with proper training, safety courses, etc. not every bowmen is going to be the regular Robin Hood and hit the mark, every time, all the time, which would thus prolong the dying process and invariably cause the animal to suffer.

[The Curt Jester]

Needless to say, Krug found spear hunting to be a little more difficult than he first anticipated.

[matthew_talbot]

It really has nothing to do with needless control.

Most of our ancestors going back multiple generations, never picked up a spear.

Not sure if you hunt or not VP, but one of the bedrock ethics in hunting is quickly and humanely killing game. Rifles, shotguns, handguns and bows are adept tools in accomplishing this, provided the hunter has the requisite training and practice with their weapon of choice.

A spear is much more likely to wound and/or maim,  than kill cleanly. Even if the animal were to die; it would be, more often than not, after a prolonged period of suffering.

Hence the ban in most states.

I am a very experienced hunter as well as a hunting safety educator and certifier. I am as pro-hunting as an individual can be. But the idea of liberalizing spear hunting is a bad one.

I don't think it should be any different for spears to be honest. Even with bows, you shoot the bloody thing then you have to wait for it to bleed out, you fall the blood trail and you find the body. While running, invariably the arrow head is still inflicting damage within the animal; not to mention, even with an experienced hunter you're not always going to get that clean kill shot, same with spears....

....I mean, even with proper training, safety courses, etc. not every bowmen is going to be the regular Robin Hood and hit the mark, every time, all the time, which would thus prolong the dying process and invariably cause the animal to suffer.

But the fault in your reasoning lies in a lack of comparison between the weapons: Bow versus spear.

There are two crucial differences as to why a bow is a vastly superior killing weapon. The force of the projectile being launched, and the stability of said projectile before launching (it's placement on a "rest").

The best way to ensure a clean, quick kill is an accurate placement of the projectile into the heart-lung area, with force sufficient to cause major trauma to the game animal's cardiovascular system. Thereby causing massive internal bleeding and a quick kill.

A bow is ridiculously superior to a spear due to it's ability to deliver much more lethal force (a bow can obviously deliver a projectile with mega-greater velocity than the human arm can) in a much more accurate fashion. The accuracy being achieved by the resting of an arrow in the bow prior to launching it. This is why using a rest while shooting a firearm insures far greater accuracy than "freehand" shooting.

A rifle, shotgun slug, or handgun are superior to both of the above due to properly chosen ammunition being able to expand inside the animal, causing even more massive trauma.

The argument for a spear being on par (or even on the same planet) with a bow or firearm is ridiculous and simply illustrates a commentators lack of experience as a hunter.

This argument is inane.

Not trying to be obnoxious but you really sound silly on this point.

As to "waiting for an animal to bleed out" I am certainly not unique in having had the majority of animals I have killed certainly not run more than several hundred yards or so before being stone-cold dead protein ready to be dressed, aged and butchered (I have probably had 10-12 deer drop dead on the spot, or It takes a few convulsive, spasming steps before going down). The key is constant practice with your weapon and knowing the game you are looking to harvest.

A previous commentator made the vary wise observation that the most technologically-advanced weapon in the world means nothing if it is in the hands of some ninny who never practices with it. It is indeed, in the end, the man with the gun, not the gun with the man.

There are indeed some truly dumb people hunting out there: That is why one should always wear blaze orange, don't do obviously stupid things like carry a  turkey or deer antlers  slung over your shoulder or call and stalk on anything but private land.

[Arun]

Well, I'm a bow hunter. Recently moved from fingershooting a long ATA compound with a whole bunch of mod-cons, to shooting an ELB off the knuckle. Mainly cos I have moved towards instinctive shooting and off-the-knuckle ELB feels more of a pure shot.

In terms of some of the things which have been said here I want to first point out that when hunting at all, but more so with cut-on-contact type weapons (bow and arrow, spear, atlatl (sp?), tomahawk &c.) you will do yourself (and the critters) a grave disservice if you are not truly honest with yourself about the realities of what it is you are actually doing.
When you get out there, it can turn really ugly really quick and if you aren't prepared it can be extremely unpleasant.
Bad shots will happen - you just have to deal with it. It's just the way it is.

As long as you put the time and effort into it down at the range you can at least minimise it. And I for one would never dream of hunting with somebody who has not put in time and effort at the range with that weapon first. For bows I'd say personally, bare minimum, hitting a 9" paper plate from 30-40 yards with every arrow in your group. Not that hard. The stalk, now that's another story of course ;) cos you gotta get yourself into that 30-40 yard zone.

If you live in an area with feral goat, they are a good animal to begin on as you can get close quite easily. It'll get you used to the nature of killing with your weapon, and it's own peculiarities and quirks - which is helpful to know.
First time out I took a shot on a goat from 12 yards. Basically just tucked in and pushed up a hill, was able to sacrifice a bit of noise for the fact she couldn't place me. She knew I was out there, somewhere, but didn't know what I was or what I was doing so she hung around, looking out to try and spot me. You won't often get that with deer.
a 12-yard stalk ain't half bad for a first timer though lol.


Right, now, after that rambling bit of jibber-jabber I shall come to my point.

There is a resort here in NZ, the owner of which in fact actually made me a longbow, where you can come and stay for a spell. While you stay you can participate in seminars and activity lessons where you learn about traditional hunting weapons (including spears, tomahawks, atlatl, bows, you name it really) and build your own under guidance.
After you've built it and learnt about it you will then spend time practising with it out at the range.

Finally you can then go and use it in a guided or un-guided hunt out on the game reserve, where there are red deer, wapiti, antipodean fallow, goats, pigs, turkeys, guinea fowl (and I think there may be a couple of other species as well).

New Zealand has pretty unrestricted game laws, so you don't have to pay for tags or any of that sort of thing.

If you happen to be sailing through down here, drop me a line and I'll put you in touch with him.

[JoeVoxxPop]

Well, I'm a bow hunter. Recently moved from fingershooting a long ATA compound with a whole bunch of mod-cons, to shooting an ELB off the knuckle. Mainly cos I have moved towards instinctive shooting and off-the-knuckle ELB feels more of a pure shot.

In terms of some of the things which have been said here I want to first point out that when hunting at all, but more so with cut-on-contact type weapons (bow and arrow, spear, atlatl (sp?), tomahawk &c.) you will do yourself (and the critters) a grave disservice if you are not truly honest with yourself about the realities of what it is you are actually doing.
When you get out there, it can turn really ugly really quick and if you aren't prepared it can be extremely unpleasant.
Bad shots will happen - you just have to deal with it. It's just the way it is.

As long as you put the time and effort into it down at the range you can at least minimise it. And I for one would never dream of hunting with somebody who has not put in time and effort at the range with that weapon first. For bows I'd say personally, bare minimum, hitting a 9" paper plate from 30-40 yards with every arrow in your group. Not that hard. The stalk, now that's another story of course ;) cos you gotta get yourself into that 30-40 yard zone.

If you live in an area with feral goat, they are a good animal to begin on as you can get close quite easily. It'll get you used to the nature of killing with your weapon, and it's own peculiarities and quirks - which is helpful to know.
First time out I took a shot on a goat from 12 yards. Basically just tucked in and pushed up a hill, was able to sacrifice a bit of noise for the fact she couldn't place me. She knew I was out there, somewhere, but didn't know what I was or what I was doing so she hung around, looking out to try and spot me. You won't often get that with deer.
a 12-yard stalk ain't half bad for a first timer though lol.


Right, now, after that rambling bit of jibber-jabber I shall come to my point.

There is a resort here in NZ, the owner of which in fact actually made me a longbow, where you can come and stay for a spell. While you stay you can participate in seminars and activity lessons where you learn about traditional hunting weapons (including spears, tomahawks, atlatl, bows, you name it really) and build your own under guidance.
After you've built it and learnt about it you will then spend time practising with it out at the range.

Finally you can then go and use it in a guided or un-guided hunt out on the game reserve, where there are red deer, wapiti, antipodean fallow, goats, pigs, turkeys, guinea fowl (and I think there may be a couple of other species as well).

New Zealand has pretty unrestricted game laws, so you don't have to pay for tags or any of that sort of thing.

If you happen to be sailing through down here, drop me a line and I'll put you in touch with him.

I always fantasize about relocating to NZ,,,.is there a strong church there? Work? how much is gas...is it easy to get a car?

[Arun]

As to "waiting for an animal to bleed out" I am certainly not unique in having had the majority of animals I have killed certainly not run more than several hundred yards or so before being stone-cold dead protein ready to be dressed, aged and butchered (I have probably had 10-12 deer drop dead on the spot, or It takes a few convulsive, spasming steps before going down). The key is constant practice with your weapon and knowing the game you are looking to harvest.

Forgot to cover this the other day - I think what he may be referring to, Matt, is that in bowhunting the kill is caused by blood loss to vital organs (which is why we go for lung, double-lung or the golden shot of double-lung/heart) and even the best placed arrow will cause a critter to go running off for a wee bit before it keels over. They don't tend to stop until they lose consciousness from the blood loss, actually.

A tip here, as well - once you've made your shot - wait a bit Let it run off and don't follow the blood trail right away - if you chase it you can often put adrenaline into it andit'll carry on further.

Sometimes though you get the odd shot where an animal won't even notice, and will keep on grazing for a bit then drop. Not often, though, but it's hilarious to see!

[Arun]

Well, I'm a bow hunter. Recently moved from fingershooting a long ATA compound with a whole bunch of mod-cons, to shooting an ELB off the knuckle. Mainly cos I have moved towards instinctive shooting and off-the-knuckle ELB feels more of a pure shot.

In terms of some of the things which have been said here I want to first point out that when hunting at all, but more so with cut-on-contact type weapons (bow and arrow, spear, atlatl (sp?), tomahawk &c.) you will do yourself (and the critters) a grave disservice if you are not truly honest with yourself about the realities of what it is you are actually doing.
When you get out there, it can turn really ugly really quick and if you aren't prepared it can be extremely unpleasant.
Bad shots will happen - you just have to deal with it. It's just the way it is.

As long as you put the time and effort into it down at the range you can at least minimise it. And I for one would never dream of hunting with somebody who has not put in time and effort at the range with that weapon first. For bows I'd say personally, bare minimum, hitting a 9" paper plate from 30-40 yards with every arrow in your group. Not that hard. The stalk, now that's another story of course ;) cos you gotta get yourself into that 30-40 yard zone.

If you live in an area with feral goat, they are a good animal to begin on as you can get close quite easily. It'll get you used to the nature of killing with your weapon, and it's own peculiarities and quirks - which is helpful to know.
First time out I took a shot on a goat from 12 yards. Basically just tucked in and pushed up a hill, was able to sacrifice a bit of noise for the fact she couldn't place me. She knew I was out there, somewhere, but didn't know what I was or what I was doing so she hung around, looking out to try and spot me. You won't often get that with deer.
a 12-yard stalk ain't half bad for a first timer though lol.


Right, now, after that rambling bit of jibber-jabber I shall come to my point.

There is a resort here in NZ, the owner of which in fact actually made me a longbow, where you can come and stay for a spell. While you stay you can participate in seminars and activity lessons where you learn about traditional hunting weapons (including spears, tomahawks, atlatl, bows, you name it really) and build your own under guidance.
After you've built it and learnt about it you will then spend time practising with it out at the range.

Finally you can then go and use it in a guided or un-guided hunt out on the game reserve, where there are red deer, wapiti, antipodean fallow, goats, pigs, turkeys, guinea fowl (and I think there may be a couple of other species as well).

New Zealand has pretty unrestricted game laws, so you don't have to pay for tags or any of that sort of thing.

If you happen to be sailing through down here, drop me a line and I'll put you in touch with him.

I always fantasize about relocating to NZ,,,.is there a strong church there? Work? how much is gas...is it easy to get a car?

SSPX stronghold in the town that I live near (I'm a bit of a trek up into the back country though, but I come in for work and for Mass.) there's work depending on what your trade/skills are and gas ain't too bad - we have a diesel which is cheap but you have to pay road user charges for your km's that you drive. Cars are easy peasy to get. You can get a decent runner for 'round a grand or just over (NZ bucks) but then that's subjective as to what sort of car you want and what kind of standards you've got...?

I think there was Transalpine Redemptorists in Christchurch and I've no idea if they followed Fr Michael Mary and became Sons, or stayed as they were, or whether they're even still there...

Diocesan TLMs around in a fair few places - I think Fr Mulholland is still floating around in Taupo or Rotorua somewhere. Those are nice towns.