skirt length?

[little_flower10]

I just want to point out that all of us have somewhat different ideas but have been able to discuss this in a dignified manner.

























(I also want to point out that except for one post, no men have written anything.)


That's it. Carry on!!!!!!

Hehe    I'm glad this hasn't turned into a huge argument. *relief!!*

[OCLittleFlower]

Verenaerin -- I may be remembering it wrong and I literally flipped through the book briefly.  Something like that might be in there somewhere, but I would have to reread the book to find it, I bet.

Yea, something I am not interested in doing, and I doubt you are either.

BTW, totally off subject. Does writing a book make you more into reading other books or less? Kinda like when you are in school, the idea of reading for fun is non existent)

I might reread it eventually but right now I have a rather large "to be read" list.

Writing hasn't made me dislike reading or anything like that, but sometimes it makes me more picky, especially with fiction.  It's similar to how learning to sew makes you more critical of clothes when you are out shopping -- now that you know what to look for, you se all the misaligned seams and cheap fabric much more than someone who doesn't sew.  Only I notice hollow characters, info dumps, info dumps placed into dialoge ("As you know, george, my sister is named Susan"), problems with point of view, etc, etc.  This is because I have learned to pick my own work apart.  Sometimes I wish I could turn off that "inner editor" to just plain enjoy a book even when I know it is bad.

[little_flower10]

oh no I have more questions  

I was thinking about this too. In the past I've worn things to Mass like pants and even jeans. (I know I know.. lol). I felt like I could try harder, but I did not think that I was sinning.. I thought, wearing a skirt is an extra thing, like praying the Rosary daily rather than once a week. If you pray it once a week, that's worse, but you're not committing a mortal sin. Well if it turns out that jeans are actually immodest and sinful - does that mean all my Communions were received unworthily and in sin? St Padre Pio didn't give absolution to women who wore pants or immodest skirts.. but could ignorance decrease culpability? Maybe he was just trying to point them to virtue and to help them avoid a sin, - but if a person grows up today always wearing pants, thinking it's normal, maybe until they know better, it's a material sin only? (not chosen). I don't think I know enough to answer this question. I would be very sad if my Communions were received unworthily that whole time, but God gave me grace through them.. any thoughts?

This is assuming that it is (at least materially) sinful to wear pants. I'm just basing this on what I read. But this could apply to anything.. for example what if a person sinned in ignorance, - was it okay for them to receive Communion?

It is not a sin for women to wear pants.  Even if it were, if you went to Confession, all your sins were forgiven, even ones you did not say because you did not now about them or forgot them.

Please try to find a priest that you can talk to.  You really sound like you need a spiritual director.

I know it's common to think that it's not a sin to wear pants.. I'm NOT in a position to tell anyone that it's a sin or not. I'm just trying to search for the truth. I just asked myself the question - if St Padre Pio knew that the woman from America had a retail store that sold women's pants - and refused to absolve her for that reason until she got rid of the pants - wasn't this fact revealed to him by God? How else would he know? So doesn't that suggest that pants are objectively wrong for women to wear? Again I'm not saying that people who wear pants are sinning mortally or anything, cause the way we're raised in our culture, we're taught that's normal, and ignorance lessens culpability. Im not accusing anyone of sin and I cant judge these things at all to begin with. But I was saying - IF it's wrong.. then maybe ignorance affects whether it's a personal sin.

[JayneK]

thanks for that.. I agree with these guidelines..  what are quarter length sleeves? Is it ordinary tshirt sleeves? (because I suppose they would be shorter than the elbow length sleeves..)

I guess the question for me now is: if it's okay to wear skirts past the knees if they're not 8 inches, but let's say 6, or 7, and is it okay to wear them without stockings in the summer, or if skirts should be longer for that season. I guess I'm just taking St Padre Pio's words seriously.. but I can't decide why this seems extreme to us, is it because we are desentized by our society, or if the definition of modesty is relative.

Yes, quarter sleeves are ordinary tshirt sleeves.

It is good to take St. Padre Pio's words seriously, but we should not treat them as if they were Church teaching.  Only the Church can make rules that bind under pain of sin.  Women who do not follow St. Padre Pio's words exactly are not sinning.  

One aspect of modesty is not drawing attention to oneself.  Another aspect is not being sexually provocative. Trying to use a list of strict rules makes it hard to balance both of these aspects.  It is better to have guidelines and general principles.

[OCLittleFlower]

thanks for that.. I agree with these guidelines..  what are quarter length sleeves? Is it ordinary tshirt sleeves? (because I suppose they would be shorter than the elbow length sleeves..)

I guess the question for me now is: if it's okay to wear skirts past the knees if they're not 8 inches, but let's say 6, or 7, and is it okay to wear them without stockings in the summer, or if skirts should be longer for that season. I guess I'm just taking St Padre Pio's words seriously.. but I can't decide why this seems extreme to us, is it because we are desentized by our society, or if the definition of modesty is relative.

Yes, quarter sleeves are ordinary tshirt sleeves.

It is good to take St. Padre Pio's words seriously, but we should not treat them as if they were Church teaching.  Only the Church can make rules that bind under pain of sin.  Women who do not follow St. Padre Pio's words exactly are not sinning.  

One aspect of modesty is not drawing attention to oneself.  Another aspect is not being sexually provocative. Trying to use a list of strict rules makes it hard to balance both of these aspects.  It is better to have guidelines and general principles.

I know it is important to not stand out -- but what if we found ourselves in a place where everyone is topless.  Perhaps as a Missionary.  Well, wouldn't we stand out by wearing shirts?  Isn't it better to stand out than be half naked?

[little_flower10]

thanks for that.. I agree with these guidelines..  what are quarter length sleeves? Is it ordinary tshirt sleeves? (because I suppose they would be shorter than the elbow length sleeves..)

I guess the question for me now is: if it's okay to wear skirts past the knees if they're not 8 inches, but let's say 6, or 7, and is it okay to wear them without stockings in the summer, or if skirts should be longer for that season. I guess I'm just taking St Padre Pio's words seriously.. but I can't decide why this seems extreme to us, is it because we are desentized by our society, or if the definition of modesty is relative.

Yes, quarter sleeves are ordinary tshirt sleeves.

okay, thanks

It is good to take St. Padre Pio's words seriously, but we should not treat them as if they were Church teaching.  Only the Church can make rules that bind under pain of sin.  Women who do not follow St. Padre Pio's words exactly are not sinning.  

I can't accuse them of sin.. (or anyone for that matter).. especially like I said, where ignorance is a factor. I can't judge souls. But I was just concerned about myself, - if it's wrong, then I shouldn't choose it knowingly. I realize that it's not Church teaching... but it is a Church teaching to dress modestly, and are pants truly modest? I guess that is the question.

One aspect of modesty is not drawing attention to oneself.  Another aspect is not being sexually provocative. Trying to use a list of strict rules makes it hard to balance both of these aspects.  It is better to have guidelines and general principles.

I do hope so.

[JayneK]

I know it's common to think that it's not a sin to wear pants.. I'm NOT in a position to tell anyone that it's a sin or not. I'm just trying to search for the truth. I just asked myself the question - if St Padre Pio knew that the woman from America had a retail store that sold women's pants - and refused to absolve her for that reason until she got rid of the pants - wasn't this fact revealed to him by God? How else would he know? So doesn't that suggest that pants are objectively wrong for women to wear? Again I'm not saying that people who wear pants are sinning mortally or anything, cause the way we're raised in our culture, we're taught that's normal, and ignorance lessens culpability. Im not accusing anyone of sin and I cant judge these things at all to begin with. But I was saying - IF it's wrong.. then maybe ignorance affects whether it's a personal sin.

If it were a sin for women to wear pants, the Church would teach us that.  She would not be letting millions of women commit a sin and say nothing.  We should not go beyond Church teaching in determining what is sinful.  It is good to take the words of St. Padre Pio as holy advice, not as a way to figure out what is a sin.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that I will wear skirts whenever practical.  This is what I believe to be better.  But I cannot suggest that it is a sin for women to wear pants unless it has been taught by the Church.

[piabee]

That first dress is a good illustration of this whole thread.. the length seems pretty modest, - however that's the question, is it?? IS it modest truly, or does it only seem this way to us because we're comparing it to what we see in our society? For example, should the dress be longer, up to the feet, because it shows some skin? There seem to be two arguments: 1. it's okay to show skin if it's not much and it's still modest, or, 2. it's never okay so if you can't wear stockings, wear a longer skirt. I'm completely undecided right now.

I have never heard any priest say that showing a moderate amount of skin is immodest, or that stockings are necessary.

[JayneK]

It is good to take St. Padre Pio's words seriously, but we should not treat them as if they were Church teaching.  Only the Church can make rules that bind under pain of sin.  Women who do not follow St. Padre Pio's words exactly are not sinning.  

I can't accuse them of sin.. (or anyone for that matter).. especially like I said, where ignorance is a factor. I can't judge souls. But I was just concerned about myself, - if it's wrong, then I shouldn't choose it knowingly. I realize that it's not Church teaching... but it is a Church teaching to dress modestly, and are pants truly modest? I guess that is the question.

The problem is you are asking a question that does not have an objective answer.  All you will get is a bunch of conflicting opinions.  You need to pray and discuss it with a priest and work out what you think you should do.   I have chosen to mainly wear skirts (with a few exceptions, like the gym).  But I respect that other women come to other conclusions.

[Someone1776]

Just remember that being in the presence of God is not the same as being in the presence of men.

HERESY!!!