MARIJUANA

[rbjmartin]

From http://britius.blogspot.com/2003_08_01_archive.html#106151679035971032#106151679035971032

Pius X, like so many men of his time, had the occasional fancy to use powdered tobacco, otherwise known as snuff (St. Padre Pio was also fond of this form of tobacco). One day his personal physicians in an effort to inform him of health problems stemming from the use of snuff reminded him that his predecessor Leo XIII gave up his snuff habit towards the end of his life, Pope St. Pius replied, “Come back and see me again when I am ninety-three, that’s when I’ll give it up!”

[rbjmartin]

Other snuff-using saints include: St. Alphonsus Ligouri, St. Bernadette of Lourdes, and St. John Bosco. I found this amusing list of tobacco using saints here: http://cantuar.blogspot.com/2006/03/king-james-against-tobacco.html

St. Joseph of Cupertino - Snuff - His was the first case in which the use of tobacco was an issue during canonization process. His advocate successfully argued that snuff-taking was an aid to holiness.

St. John Bosco - Snuff & Smoke -

St. Pius X - Smoker - Occasionally borrowed cigarettes from Swiss Guards. When reprimanding a bishop for his scandalous misbehavior with wine, women and song, the pope offered the errant bishop a cigar from the papal humidor on his desk. The bishop declined the offer with the protestation, "I do not have that vice, Your Holiness," to which His Holiness replied, "If cigars were a vice, I would not offer you one, for you have quite enough vices already." Tobacco use was an issue during canonization process.

St. John Kemble - Pipe - Martyred in England. When the hour for execution arrived, he persuaded the official to delay a bit until he had finished his prayers, smoked a pipe and had a drink. The offical joined him.

Saint Vincent de Paul - Snuff - Tobacco use was an issue during canonization process.

St. Bernadette - Snuff - Her snuff box is a relic on display in Lourdes. Took snuff for her asthma.

Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati - Pipe - He smoked a pipe, enjoyed female society, took delight in poetry and operas, and called himself Robes Pierre.

[Resurrexi]

Smoking pot is low-class and trashy; nevertheless, I don't see why it should be illegal.

It's not a good thing to speak of other Catholics as being possibly "low class".  I'm "low class" but don't smoke the stuff. 

I was slightly taken aback by Resurrexi's comment, myself... I mean, if it's something both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have smoked, can it really be considered "low class"?

There's much more to class than money.

A senator's son with an Ivy League education, even if he makes a modest income as a professor and inherits none of his family's wealth, will always be higher in class than an uneducated man from the ghetto who wins a hundred million dollars in the lottery.

Some of the world's most terrible politicians come out of Ivy League schools, sending our troops to die for industrial interests overseas, destroying our economy under the orders of financial interests.

Some of the most educated and "gentlemanly" individuals in history consciously made terrible decisions.  "Class" ain't worth sh*t. 

Education, etiquette, and wealth -- all good things -- are all tied to class.

Wealth, like all good things, can be and perhaps even is usually abused (hence Christ's warnings against it in the gospel); nevertheless, without proportionally large amounts of wealth in the hands of a few, most beautiful things (such as the fine forms of art, music, and architecture) -- not to mention technological advancement -- would be next to impossible.

Although it is especially virtuous to give up wealth (just as it is particularly virtuous to give up marriage), if I'm not joining a religious order I'd rather be with wealth than without it.

[Su]

I could now post sources where the Popes were against smoking as being evil.

Drug addiction clouds the minds of men, including intellectuals, saints, and Popes.

But like I said, it is a smaller matter than most.

But defending it is the issue. That makes it big. People should not strive to defend such base behaviours.

[rbjmartin]

I could now post sources where the Popes were against smoking as being evil.

Drug addiction clouds the minds of men, including intellectuals, saints, and Popes.

But like I said, it is a smaller matter than most.

But defending it is the issue. That makes it big. People should not strive to defend such base behaviours.

I never defended drug "addiction." I only defended the possibility that alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana can be used for virtuous ends (and therefore should not be, de facto, considered objectively evil and worthy of illegalization). From people I have spoken to close to me who have used marijuana, they say it does not, in any way, impair their judgement or ability to reason. In fact, a few people I know say that when they have smoked pot, they had the immediate urge to start cleaning the house, and they go on cleaning sprees!


I also recently read about a study that draws a correlation between legalized medical marijuana in certain states and a lower incidence of fatal traffic accidents in those states.
http://hometestingblog.testcountry.com/?p=17893

[Tapatio]

I don't think many people would want to drive when they are stoned.

[rbjmartin]

I don't think many people would want to drive when they are stoned.

Yes, because people who smoke pot in the movies are a perfect representation of reality (as with all movies, right?).

[Tapatio]

I don't think many people would want to drive when they are stoned.

Yes, because people who smoke pot in the movies are a perfect representation of reality (as with all movies, right?).

As far as pot smoking, I would not know.
Here in Mexico, we leave the pot to the end users. The Americans.
The majority of people in Mexico cant afford drugs. Thank God.

[Su]

I never defended drug "addiction." I only defended the possibility that alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana can be used for virtuous ends (and therefore should not be, de facto, considered objectively evil and worthy of illegalization). From people I have spoken to close to me who have used marijuana, they say it does not, in any way, impair their judgement or ability to reason. In fact, a few people I know say that when they have smoked pot, they had the immediate urge to start cleaning the house, and they go on cleaning sprees!

People have various responses to marijuana. Most users have what could be called a pleasant response (those with negative reactions usually try it once and then never use it again). I do not know how marijuana affects reason or the body as a whole, other than it is quite variable (some people it is just relaxing, some people get way too relaxed, some people become completely oblivious to their environment, etc. I have witnessed such varied responses in people who use marijuana regularly).

However, the overall issue is not how bad it is for the body or how intoxicating it is, but the motivation for using it.

I also recently read about a study that draws a correlation between legalized medical marijuana in certain states and a lower incidence of fatal traffic accidents in those states.
http://hometestingblog.testcountry.com/?p=17893

You know what they say about those types of studies ;)

I also have some studies which show that cities with higher numbers of police officers have more violent crime.

I do not think marijuana for people who choose to use it regularly is particularly harmful. Although it is apparent it can have very bad effects on some users, like caffeine has on some people.

[DrBombay]

Sure, legalize it.  Why not.  And while you're at it, eliminate the stupid "drinking age" too.  Or at least lower it back to 18.  You can join the military and vote but you can't buy a beer?  Idiotic.