Crusading Philologist
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« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2012, 11:29:AM » |
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I would not be so convinced that Gingrich will make good on his word. The man has trouble keeping marriage vows, a much graver matter.
This is objectively wrong, and seriously wrong. Supporting abortion and birth control are far graver sins than adultery. I'm not saying this is necessarily wrong, but isn't it a little odd to say that your morality is determined more by your political beliefs than your personal conduct?
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Loyalty to a doctrine ends in adherence to the interpretation we give it. Only loyalty to a person frees us from all self-complacency. - Nicolás Gómez Dávila
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kingtheoden
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« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2012, 10:08:PM » |
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CP,
It's not odd at all. Personal imperfections and weakness are less severe than actions that transgress the First, Second, and Fifth Commandments.
Obama, in word and deed, has caused or intended to cause infanticide. Let that sink in. Not only is he in favor of crushing a perfectly viable yet-to-be-birthed child, he advocated for the legal right of people to leave a fully birthed child on a table to die from exposure.
This is deeply, critically evil.
The problem with your argument CP is that you are saying that actions are everything. First of all, words are actions. But beyond that, I am sure that there have been and are deeply devoted sons of Holy Mother Church who have, at times, or even now, struggle with containing lust and fornications. Do you really think everyone at the local chapel is perfect?
Our actions will follow our faith. If we feed our Faith supernatural food, bad actions will diminish. And for all we known Newt really is very sorry for having affairs and is devoted to his wife Calista.
Obama on the other hand is post-modern nihilism personified, the fruits of which are dead babies. Worse, this satanism is falsely called 'women's health' and 'care.' And he goes out of his way to say Catholics must tithe in a sort of warped dhimmitude to Obama's animal spirits of Baal and Moloch. Evil, pure evil.
I voted for McCain, and would vote for Ginch in a heartbeat.
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dcmaccabees
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« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2012, 10:23:PM » |
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Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't we called to do more than simply vote for the "less evil" candidate? Aren't we supposed to vote for the most moral of the field, regardless of their perceived "electability"?
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"Catholicism is not ritualism; it may in the future be fighting some sort of superstitious and idolatrous exaggeration of ritual. Catholicism is not asceticism; it has again and again in the past repressed fanatical and cruel exaggerations of asceticism. Catholicism is not mere mysticism; it is even now defending human reason against the mere mysticism of the Pragmatists. " - G. K. Chesterton
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DrBombay
Quintessential Heckler
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« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2012, 10:26:PM » |
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Just do what I do. Don't vote. Moral dilemma solved.
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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
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kingtheoden
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« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2012, 10:37:PM » |
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Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't we called to do more than simply vote for the "less evil" candidate? Aren't we supposed to vote for the most moral of the field, regardless of their perceived "electability"?
Yes and we will arrive at different conclusions based upon our subjective conscience formation. There's nothing per se wrong with that, but it does underscore the innate defect of liberal democracy and republicanism. If the government were not for sale every couple of years, people would focus on their own lives and there would be stability. Of course, this assumes a Catholic confessional state as an American heredity system, at this juncture, would be mysteriously awful.
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dcmaccabees
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« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2012, 10:43:PM » |
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Ok, then with that benchmark in mind, does Gingrich, Romney, Sanatorum, or Paul fit into the"less evil" or the "moral" box to you?
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"Catholicism is not ritualism; it may in the future be fighting some sort of superstitious and idolatrous exaggeration of ritual. Catholicism is not asceticism; it has again and again in the past repressed fanatical and cruel exaggerations of asceticism. Catholicism is not mere mysticism; it is even now defending human reason against the mere mysticism of the Pragmatists. " - G. K. Chesterton
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Old Salt
Yep.
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Sancta Dei Genitrix Ora Pro Nobis.
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« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2012, 11:02:PM » |
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It would be a gravely sinful matter if any Catholic voted for Barack Obama.
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Don't forget to pray for the dead.
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dcmaccabees
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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2012, 03:46:PM » |
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Agreed, but is Obama the only candidate who it would be gravely sinful to vote for in the presidential election? Romney, for example, only recently came out as pro-life and then only tepidly. The history of main stream GOP candidates and their actual impact on matters of pushing back the culture of death has been negligible. It doesn't take a reversal of Roe v Wade, it would simply take an act of congress to remove the Supreme Court from the issue. The GOP had Congress and the Presidency and did nothing.
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"Catholicism is not ritualism; it may in the future be fighting some sort of superstitious and idolatrous exaggeration of ritual. Catholicism is not asceticism; it has again and again in the past repressed fanatical and cruel exaggerations of asceticism. Catholicism is not mere mysticism; it is even now defending human reason against the mere mysticism of the Pragmatists. " - G. K. Chesterton
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Guardian
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« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2012, 04:09:PM » |
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Ok, then with that benchmark in mind, does Gingrich, Romney, Sanatorum, or Paul fit into the"less evil" or the "moral" box to you?
Santorum and Paul fall into the "moral box". Gingrich and Romney fall into the "less evil" box. Any and all would be better than Obama.
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"Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, I offer You the most precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the sacrileges, outrages and indifference by which He Himself is offended. And through the infinite merits of His most Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg of you the conversion of poor sinners."
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dcmaccabees
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« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2012, 04:28:PM » |
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With that in mind, remember this quote from Max Lerner when tempted to vote for Gingrich or Romney because they are "less bad" than Obama: “When you choose the lesser of two evils, always remember that it is still an evil.”
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"Catholicism is not ritualism; it may in the future be fighting some sort of superstitious and idolatrous exaggeration of ritual. Catholicism is not asceticism; it has again and again in the past repressed fanatical and cruel exaggerations of asceticism. Catholicism is not mere mysticism; it is even now defending human reason against the mere mysticism of the Pragmatists. " - G. K. Chesterton
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