Sensative topic

[Neo-Floriano]

That "half-awake" thing is bull. Either you know that you're doing or not. If you don't, you're probably sleepwalking.

People have been known to get up and urinate in places such as the kitchen and even murder people while sleepwalking.

Start saying the Rosary every day and your problem should go away.

[Su]

That "half-awake" thing is bull. Either you know that you're doing or not. If you don't, you're probably sleepwalking.

No, it is not.

People have various states of awareness.

For instance, when I was "half awake", I once tried to do something which I later found to be completely ridiculous. I was "awake" at the time of course, but I was not fully conscious. It was a technical matter, something which I am otherwise good at, but it lead me to do things for about 15 minutes which could not possibly work. Now, I was awake enough to move some heavy things and set up some computer components, and work on booting a live disk and set up Linux, but the reason for my doing this was ridiculous. Some basic fact completely slipped my mind which made my acts completely pointless.

Also, I have written things when extremely tired and later read them and wondered what was going on in my mind. One thing I wrote in a late night writing session was a computer program and I later mistook what I saw as being the work of another person because the code was so bad.

And you are denying a very important thing: that we are human. The effects of original sin are not to be ignored:

I answer that, As a result of original justice, the reason had perfect hold over the lower parts of the soul, while reason itself was perfected by God, and was subject to Him. Now this same original justice was forfeited through the sin of our first parent, as already stated (81, 2); so that all the powers of the soul are left, as it were, destitute of their proper order, whereby they are naturally directed to virtue; which destitution is called a wounding of nature.

Again, there are four of the soul's powers that can be subject of virtue, as stated above (Question 61, Article 2), viz. the reason, where prudence resides, the will, where justice is, the irascible, the subject of fortitude, and the concupiscible, the subject of temperance. Therefore in so far as the reason is deprived of its order to the true, there is the wound of ignorance; in so far as the will is deprived of its order of good, there is the wound of malice; in so far as the irascible is deprived of its order to the arduous, there is the wound of weakness; and in so far as the concupiscible is deprived of its order to the delectable, moderated by reason, there is the wound of concupiscence.

Accordingly these are the four wounds inflicted on the whole of human nature as a result of our first parent's sin. But since the inclination to the good of virtue is diminished in each individual on account of actual sin, as was explained above (Question 1, Article 2), these four wounds are also the result of other sins, in so far as, through sin, the reason is obscured, especially in practical matters, the will hardened to evil, good actions become more difficult and concupiscence more impetuous.

The flesh and the will are not perfectly ordered now. We are not angels.

[Neo-Floriano]

I'll consider your point.

By the way, I chuckled when I read about Linux. That's pretty nerdy (not a bad thing, necessarily).
I've been in somewhat of a similar situation when I took notes during a briefing that I had to attend with only a few hours of sleep. I couldn't recognize - or comprehend - my own handwriting.

[Su]

By the way, I chuckled when I read about Linux. That's pretty nerdy (not a bad thing, necessarily).

I use GNU/Linux as my normal operating system, and I built my computer.

But, right now, I was writing another blog post on my typewriter. The Corona 3. I just made a mistake in what I wanted to write so I used some Wite-Out to cover it and checked the forum while waiting for it to dry.

I've been in somewhat of a similar situation when I took notes during a briefing that I had to attend with only a few hours of sleep. I couldn't recognize - or comprehend - my own handwriting.

That is why I use a typewriter. Helps with reading, not with comprehension, in such writing. You could have written something brilliant, but now you'll never know.

In the case of the OP, it is clearly not fully intended. The act started during unconsciousness, and was continued while awake. Now, if someone were to ask him at such a time what is good and what he has chosen, he would surely have been able to make the perfectly ordered decision, but as it is, it is just oneself and the rebellious flesh. It he did not fully intend to do such a thing based on what was described. I did not fully intend to press "B" instead of """ (that is a quoted quote), but it was my hands and my nervous system which lead to that (it is a three bank keyboard and double shifting...I pressed the wrong shift key).

[Protrident]

1.  stay as close to confession/Eucharist as possible.
2.  Pray nonstop for the grace of purity.  Better to pray for the "positive" than against the "negative."  Pray 3 Ave's for purity, big tradition to do that.
3.  Stop watching TV and movies, stop listening to most music.  These are constant mini struggles that wear down the soul.
4.  fill your time with holy reading.
5.  Stay off the internet!  way way WAY too easy to put self in an occasion of sin.  Being "on" the internet might be an occasion, actually.  Get on the internet only for an important thing, and then shut it off.
6.  Remember, you struggle because you have a demon around whispering to you, presenting you bad alternatives.  Attack this demon/problem head on, you'll get it, and eventually not do it anymore.  All Christians were given the authority to pray this prayer over demons, "In the name of Jesus Christ, I bind all evil spirits around me to the foot of the Cross, to be judged by Jesus Christ and punished as He see fit. Amen."  This Binding Prayer can be said for many situations and for others we love.
7.  Remember it's easy to give into this world, it's hardcore to follow God.  The holier we are, the more people around us get graces.  Especially our wives/kids.  Our authority as Spiritual Head of the family  becomes more powerful and our prayers of protection for them more powerful the holier we are.  You'll get over this demon.  You've pointed it out, named it, now you know your enemy and he can't hide.  You'll be extremely happy when you beat this demon and you get to move on to the next big evil in your life as you work on becoming a saint.


 

[Old Salt]

I confessed the half awake, sexual stimulation thing to an IBP trad priest and he told me it is not a sin.

[City Smurf]

By thine Immaculate Conception, O Mary, make my body pure and my soul holy.
Hail Mary &c.
By thine Immaculate Conception, O Mary, make my body pure and my soul holy.
Hail Mary &c.
By thine Immaculate Conception, O Mary, make my body pure and my soul holy.
Hail Mary &c.
O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.

Pray this prayer whenever you begin dwelling on impure thoughts.  Pray it whenever you accidentally come across unchaste images whilst browsing the net, say it when you wake up and before you go to bed.. just say it regularly.  It works wonders when you're devoted to it.

[INPEFESS]

Especially considering that you actually stopped once you were aware, it's definitely not mortal-- I don't know if it's a sin at all.

Mythrandylan, perhaps I misunderstand him here, but he said: ". . . and did not desist completing it." I think he means that he went through with the act.

St. Thomas answered some questions pertained to nocturnal pollution. Perhaps this will be of some help:

Article 5. Whether nocturnal pollution is a mortal sin?

Objection 1. It would seem that nocturnal pollution is a sin. For the same things are the matter of merit and demerit. Now a man may merit while he sleeps, as was the case with Solomon, who while asleep obtained the gift of wisdom from the Lord (1 Samuel 3:5). Therefore a man may demerit while asleep; and thus nocturnal pollution would seem to be a sin.

Objection 2. Further, whoever has the use of reason can sin. Now a man has the use of reason while asleep, since in our sleep we frequently discuss matters, choose this rather than that, consenting to one thing, or dissenting to another. Therefore one may sin while asleep, so that nocturnal pollution is not prevented by sleep from being a sin, seeing that it is a sin according to its genus.

Objection 3. Further, it is useless to reprove and instruct one who cannot act according to or against reason. Now man, while asleep, is instructed and reproved by God, according to Job 33:15-16, "By a dream in a vision by night, when deep sleep is wont to lay hold of men [Vulgate: 'When deep sleep falleth upon men.' St. Thomas is apparently quoting from memory, as the passage is given correctly above, 95, 6, Objection 1 . . . Then He openeth the ears of men, and teaching instructeth them in what they are to learn." Therefore a man, while asleep, can act according to or against his reason, and this is to do good or sinful actions, and thus it seems that nocturnal pollution is a sin.

On the contrary, Augustine says (Gen. ad lit. xii, 15): "When the same image that comes into the mind of a speaker presents itself to the mind of the sleeper, so that the latter is unable to distinguish the imaginary from the real union of bodies, the flesh is at once moved, with the result that usually follows such motions; and yet there is as little sin in this as there is in speaking and therefore thinking about such things while one is awake."

I answer that, Nocturnal pollution may be considered in two ways. First, in itself; and thus it has not the character of a sin. For every sin depends on the judgment of reason, since even the first movement of the sensuality has nothing sinful in it, except in so far as it can be suppressed by reason; wherefore in the absence of reason's judgment, there is no sin in it. Now during sleep reason has not a free judgment. For there is no one who while sleeping does not regard some of the images formed by his imagination as though they were real, as stated above in I, 84, 8, ad 2. Wherefore what a man does while he sleeps and is deprived of reason's judgment, is not imputed to him as a sin, as neither are the actions of a maniac or an imbecile.

Secondly, nocturnal pollution may be considered with reference to its cause. This may be threefold. One is a bodily cause. For when there is excess of seminal humor in the body, or when the humor is disintegrated either through overheating of the body or some other disturbance, the sleeper dreams things that are connected with the discharge of this excessive or disintegrated humor: the same thing happens when nature is cumbered with other superfluities, so that phantasms relating to the discharge of those superfluities are formed in the imagination. Accordingly if this excess of humor be due to a sinful cause (for instance excessive eating or drinking), nocturnal pollution has the character of sin from its cause: whereas if the excess or disintegration of these superfluities be not due to a sinful cause, nocturnal pollution is not sinful, neither in itself nor in its cause.

A second cause of nocturnal pollution is on the part of the soul and the inner man: for instance when it happens to the sleeper on account of some previous thought. For the thought which preceded while he was awake, is sometimes purely speculative, for instance when one thinks about the sins of the flesh for the purpose of discussion; while sometimes it is accompanied by a certain emotion either of concupiscence or of abhorrence. Now nocturnal pollution is more apt to arise from thinking about carnal sins with concupiscence for such pleasures, because this leaves its trace and inclination in the soul, so that the sleeper is more easily led in his imagination to consent to acts productive of pollution. In this sense the Philosopher says (Ethic. i, 13) that "in so far as certain movements in some degree pass" from the waking state to the state of sleep, "the dreams of good men are better than those of any other people": and Augustine says (Gen. ad lit. xii, 15) that "even during sleep, the soul may have conspicuous merit on account of its good disposition." Thus it is evident that nocturnal pollution may be sinful on the part of its cause. on the other hand, it may happen that nocturnal pollution ensues after thoughts about carnal acts, though they were speculative, or accompanied by abhorrence, and then it is not sinful, neither in itself nor in its cause.

The third cause is spiritual and external; for instance when by the work of a devil the sleeper's phantasms are disturbed so as to induce the aforesaid result. Sometimes this is associated with a previous sin, namely the neglect to guard against the wiles of the devil. Hence the words of the hymn at even: "Our enemy repress, that so our bodies no uncleanness know" [translation W. K. Blount].

On the other hand, this may occur without any fault on man's part, and through the wickedness of the devil alone. Thus we read in the Collationes Patrum (Coll. xxii, 6) of a man who was ever wont to suffer from nocturnal pollution on festivals, and that the devil brought this about in order to prevent him from receiving Holy Communion. Hence it is manifest that nocturnal pollution is never a sin, but is sometimes the result of a previous sin.

Reply to Objection 1. Solomon did not merit to receive wisdom from God while he was asleep. He received it in token of his previous desire. It is for this reason that his petition is stated to have been pleasing to God (1 Kings 3:10), as Augustine observes (Gen. ad lit. xii, 15).

Reply to Objection 2. The use of reason is more or less hindered in sleep, according as the inner sensitive powers are more or less overcome by sleep, on account of the violence or attenuation of the evaporations. Nevertheless it is always hindered somewhat, so as to be unable to elicit a judgment altogether free, as stated in I, 84, 8, ad 2. Therefore what it does then is not imputed to it as a sin.

Reply to Objection 3. Reason's apprehension is not hindered during sleep to the same extent as its judgment, for this is accomplished by reason turning to sensible objects, which are the first principles of human thought. Hence nothing hinders man's reason during sleep from apprehending anew something arising out of the traces left by his previous thoughts and phantasms presented to him, or again through Divine revelation, or the interference of a good or bad angel.

dcmaccabees, it seems you have already discussed this matter with your priest (which is always the best course of action), but perhaps these principles proposed by St. Thomas might be of use in the unfortunate event that it happens in the future. I think the main question to ask yourself upon awakening is whether your level of consciousness renders your reasoning faculties intact. Sometimes we think our reasoning faculties are intact (for example, during lucid dreaming), but when we awake in the morning our reason is repulsed at the thought of consenting to such sins. We are certain that, with God's grace to aid our reason, we would not have consented to such a temptation. For the future, try to determine (either upon awakening in the middle of the night or in the morning) whether your reason was fully intact. According to the wisdom of a traditional priest I know, any state of disillusionment and semi-consciousness renders the sin not mortal, since what is necessary to make a sin mortal is full consent of the will. 

[Scriptorium]

Concerning the awake thing, when someone is still neck deep in lust, or even knee deep, our sleep play a lot of tricks on us, First thing is is that you feel like you have no control over your sleeping state. That's not true. As you develop spiritually you can control your dreams, or at the very least cause the "scene to change" in a dream. Usually the dream is influenced by our waking lusts. They get folded into the dream, and maybe we have a wet dream, or maybe you wake up giving yourself pleasure. Now the consent in these is either partial or none existent, but we have to recognize that our everyday waking thoughts affect our sleeping state. Start working on the waking lust, and the sleep will calm, and also you will become more lucid so that either in the dream you can alter it to leave a sexual dream, or it will naturally not get to a final point (by God;s grace). If we have extremely weak moments, we need to do everything we can in our strong moments to create a positive momentum for when we are weak. I am glad you confessed. Keep working on it. It is a vile myth of our society that man cannot go without masturbation. That is false. Work on it, and there will be a break through point in which you literally look back and kind of laugh that you engaged in such a insane pleasure. Literally sitting in a burning building pouring gasoline on yourself and singing gleefully as though you were in the shower.

As a side note, wear a St Philomena cord, and a St Joseph's cord around your waist. Wear a scapular. And ask them for aid. Wear a scapular in the shower too. Seriously, I am not kidding. Since you are weak, you need to literally surround yourself with aids. Pretend you're in public, because you are.

As for other ideas, read this recent post on a related topic.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3449107.10.html

[ggreg]

That "half-awake" thing is bull. Either you know that you're doing or not. If you don't, you're probably sleepwalking.

Feeling tired afterwards is common.  But I've never heard of sleepwanking.

If the half awake thing is true don't tell Tyco.  They will have people working 72 hour shifts and sleeping on the job.

Which half was asleep?