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Author Topic: Cardinal Dolan's 7 Point Plan for Evangelization  (Read 2598 times)
joe17
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 10:36:PM »

 Good post Gerard.

 Joe
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Crusading Philologist
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 10:43:PM »

You people are beyond ridiculous sometimes.
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Phillipus Iacobus
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 10:46:PM »

.
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DrBombay
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 10:48:PM »

.

Quoted for truth.
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Sometimes the Crunchies are right....
Phillipus Iacobus
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 10:48:PM »


Thanks.
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Gerard
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2012, 11:07:PM »

You people are beyond ridiculous sometimes.

What do you mean?
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DrBombay
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2012, 11:08:PM »


 Tip o' the hat
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Sometimes the Crunchies are right....
Crusading Philologist
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2012, 11:42:PM »

You people are beyond ridiculous sometimes.

What do you mean?

While I don't find Dolan's points to be particularly inspiring, I don't really think that the reaction in this thread is justified.

They are also like all of us are ordered toward sin and they like us have free will. And so consequently some have willfully chosen to reject God, His Church and are our enemies.

Yes, but I'm not sure what that has to do with Dolan's point. People do have a natural longing for the divine, even if this longing is often perverted by sin and disordered attachments.

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3) Knowing that the new evangelization is not about presenting a doctrine or belief-system, but a Person, whose name is Jesus.

Who gave the great commission to the Church to teach a belief system that He gave to us from the Father.

Did he? The Catholic faith is a mixture of belief and practice, and it is centered around the body and blood of Jesus Christ, right?

Quote
4) Nevertheless, this Jesus is the Truth. Hence, evangelization is linked to catechesis

In other words a doctrine and system of belief. But don't evangelize a person with the Truth. 

So, Dolan does think that teaching doctrine is important. He just thinks that evangelization should not be limited to that.

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5) An evangelist must be a person of joy -- someone who smiles

Villians and devils smile alot as well. How about distinguishing joy from happiness? 

This is true of course, but I don't think you are going to convert very many people if you come off as angry and unhappy.

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6) The new evangelization is about love -- the love of God made concrete in service

Only if directed towards the salvation of souls, a full stomach with an empty soul is a tragedy. 

It seems that Dolan is linking service and evangelization here. I see no reason to believe that he thinks the Church should focus only on the material needs of the poor.

Quote
7) Finally, martyrdom. A reminder that the Church is now peopled by those who are suffering persecution for their faith, and that these martyrs give impetus to the new evangelization

Will the Cardinal designate be standing in the front lines of that persecution as he wears the red signifying that he'll shed his blood for the faith?  Will he die for Christ and presenting the message of His sacrifice on the Cross? The necessity of His Church for the salvation of any soul that desires to be saved?  Will he die for the sacraments Christ Himself gave to the one and only Church He established? 

Or will the Cardinal lay down his life for the "inate longing for the Divine" by the Churches sworn enemies or will he be defending the faithful from those enemies? 

Will he die for "non-triumphalism?"

Will he die to prevent the doctrine and belief system that God revealed to man from being presented? 

Will he die to make sure that those who want to know and love the 2nd Person of the Trinity, God made man know His teaching without one jot nor tittle missing? 

Will he die to make sure that the evangelization of Love is about servicing the needs of souls more than bodies? 

I for one think the bishop is full of crap. He wants to be a social worker with a mascot named Jesus. 

This kind of insipid milquetoast "rallying cry" wouldn't attract ants at a picnic if it were smeared with jelly.  This bishop's talk isn't even worth the walk. 


I don't see how you've drawn any of your conclusions from Dolan's statements here, and while only God knows how Dolan would act under real persecution and the threat of martyrdom, I see no reason to assume that he would not face martyrdom for the sake of the Church.


« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 11:45:PM by Crusading Philologist » Logged

Loyalty to a doctrine ends in adherence to the interpretation we give it.
Only loyalty to a person frees us from all self-complacency. - Nicolás Gómez Dávila
NorthernTrad
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2012, 11:44:PM »

My one point plan - recognize Vatican II as the trash that it is
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Gerard
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2012, 12:24:AM »


While I don't find Dolan's points to be particularly inspiring, I don't really think that the reaction in this thread is justified.

Perhaps it's justified when one is skeptical of the sincerity of the cheesehead bishop.  He's been cowed by gay groups in his own archdiocese and applauded them for some reason he's been unwilling to explain.

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They are also like all of us are ordered toward sin and they like us have free will. And so consequently some have willfully chosen to reject God, His Church and are our enemies.

Yes, but I'm not sure what that has to do with Dolan's point. People do have a natural longing for the divine, even if this longing is often perverted by sin and disordered attachments.

Dolan ignores the point that the Church has enemies. We are not required to be cowtowing to stiff-necked people that want us destroyed. Dolan makes no room for militancy.

Quote
Quote
3) Knowing that the new evangelization is not about presenting a doctrine or belief-system, but a Person, whose name is Jesus.

Who gave the great commission to the Church to teach a belief system that He gave to us from the Father.

Did he? The Catholic faith is a mixture of belief and practice, and it is centered around the body and blood of Jesus Christ, right?

A person named Jesus may be mowing my lawn this summer.  Is the new evangalization about him or is there a belief system about another Jesus that is part of the same evangelization that's gone on for 2 millennia?

Quote

Quote
4) Nevertheless, this Jesus is the Truth. Hence, evangelization is linked to catechesis

In other words a doctrine and system of belief. But don't evangelize a person with the Truth. 

So, Dolan does think that teaching doctrine is important. He just thinks that evangelization should not be limited to that.

Or he thinks that the doctrine and belief system should be limited in order to present the Person without the Good News concerning that Person. 
Quote

Quote
5) An evangelist must be a person of joy -- someone who smiles

Villians and devils smile alot as well. How about distinguishing joy from happiness? 

This is true of course, but I don't think you are going to convert very many people if you come off as angry and unhappy.

You certainly aren't going to convince anyone that salvation is something to take seriously if you are always grinning like a fool. 

One can be solemn, serious, humorous and loving without ever cracking a smile. Some of the most loving people I've met were tough as nails and crusty and irascible. 

Another guy smiled and hugged me as he scammed me for 20 bucks. 
Quote

Quote
6) The new evangelization is about love -- the love of God made concrete in service

Only if directed towards the salvation of souls, a full stomach with an empty soul is a tragedy. 

It seems that Dolan is linking service and evangelization here. I see no reason to believe that he thinks the Church should focus only on the material needs of the poor.

We can't even be sure of his definition of "love".  The love of God is made concrete in "service," (whatever service means) not in the Eucharist? 
Quote

Quote
7) Finally, martyrdom. A reminder that the Church is now peopled by those who are suffering persecution for their faith, and that these martyrs give impetus to the new evangelization

Will the Cardinal designate be standing in the front lines of that persecution as he wears the red signifying that he'll shed his blood for the faith?  Will he die for Christ and presenting the message of His sacrifice on the Cross? The necessity of His Church for the salvation of any soul that desires to be saved?  Will he die for the sacraments Christ Himself gave to the one and only Church He established? 

Or will the Cardinal lay down his life for ...


I don't see how you've drawn any of your conclusions from Dolan's statements here, and while only God knows how Dolan would act under real persecution and the threat of martyrdom, I see no reason to assume that he would not face martyrdom for the sake of the Church.

I asked a series of rhetorical questions based on the Cardinal's 7 point plan. It's an amateurish plan with an unclear goal, far different from the "old" evangelization which centered on the salvation of souls. 

It's a lot of typical post-Vatican II vague, emotional talk. It doesn't even make practical sense. 

I don't see any language present in the Cardinal's "plan" that helps people for spiritual combat and the great stakes.

Every tin can Church talks about a "person" named Jesus.  Is Dolan concerned about correcting theological error or is that being "triumphalistic."

There's no mention of Hell in anything he ever seems to say, he never talks about souls.  It's all some kind of giant time-wasting go along to get along. 

Frankly, I don't think the man is qualified, just like most of his fellow bishops to talk about the important issues of the day, both the ones that he does mention and the more important ones he doesn't. 

I'll listen to what he says because he's a bishop, but I'm not going to follow his pathetic "plan" when the voices of better bishops still resonate in the history of the Church and in a very few places nowadays. 
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