Is Traditional Catholicism becoming watered down?

[Vetus Ordo]

"Is Traditional Catholicism becoming watered down?"

Yes.

Could you please explain your thoughts on this, Vetus? I think your input would be interesting.

The explanation is simple, almost mathematical when you think about it.

The moment the TLM became "mainstream," which was slowly set in motion by SP back in 2007, traditional Catholicism was progressively flooded with modern Catholics that brought with them, to some extent, the bias of modern worldviews, political correctness and even modernist errors. This will only intensify as the old mass and traditional congregations eventually grow. The train has already left the station so it's pretty much unstoppable now.

The good thing about this phenomenon is that the road is at least somewhat open for restoration. Becoming mainstream is the natural turn of events for the truth after all: the truth is mainstream by nature, not the exclusive property of a select few. At the same, there's the fear of contamination and compromise which might jeopardise the whole thing from the get-go. In my opinion, the outcome can only be one of the two:

1. Traditional Catholicism dissolves into the mainstream Church with all her "charisms": from the FSSP to Kiko's Neocatechumenals, etc.
2. Traditional Catholicism successfully purfies the mainstream Church, provoking a few schisms in between.

[JayneK]

The good thing about this phenomenon is that the road is at least somewhat open for restoration. Becoming mainstream is the natural turn of events for the truth after all: the truth is mainstream by nature, not the exclusive property of a select few. At the same, there's the fear of contamination and compromise which might jeopardise the whole thing from the get-go. In my opinion, the outcome can only be one of the two:

1. Traditional Catholicism dissolves into the mainstream Church with all her "charisms": from the FSSP to Kiko's Neocatechumenals, etc.
2. Traditional Catholicism successfully purfies the mainstream Church, provoking a few schisms in between.

I vote for #2.

[TrentCath]

"Is Traditional Catholicism becoming watered down?"

Yes.

Could you please explain your thoughts on this, Vetus? I think your input would be interesting.

The explanation is simple, almost mathematical when you think about it.

The moment the TLM became "mainstream," which was slowly set in motion by SP back in 2007, traditional Catholicism was progressively flooded with modern Catholics that brought with them, to some extent, the bias of modern worldviews, political correctness and even modernist errors. This will only intensify as the old mass and traditional congregations eventually grow. The train has already left the station so it's pretty much unstoppable now.

The good thing about this phenomenon is that the road is at least somewhat open for restoration. Becoming mainstream is the natural turn of events for the truth after all: the truth is mainstream by nature, not the exclusive property of a select few. At the same, there's the fear of contamination and compromise which might jeopardise the whole thing from the get-go. In my opinion, the outcome can only be one of the two:

1. Traditional Catholicism dissolves into the mainstream Church with all her "charisms": from the FSSP to Kiko's Neocatechumenals, etc.
2. Traditional Catholicism successfully purfies the mainstream Church, provoking a few schisms in between.

2, so long as the Society stands firm.

[JoniCath]

I think that Summorum Pontificum means that more people are trads.  Over all, that is a good thing, but it means one is likely to encounter more diversity among us.

I'm a Summorum Pontificum trad.  My first TLM was the day it came into effect.  I have always had access to a diocesan approved TLM.  I never had my status as a Catholic questioned because I attend this Mass.  I'm not an angry trad. I don't have anything to be angry about.  I don't think that this is the same as being "watered down".

Summorum Pontificum was my Salvation. My first TLM. was probably 2 wks. after I was born............in Nov. of 1941. I'm not an  "angry trad", either........though I may have more right to be than many here. My Church was literally taken from me when I was 28 yrs. old & I hung in there until about 2,005. That was when I began missing Mass for the slightest reason. I would have probably become a "fallen away" Catholic by now if it weren't for S.P. My husband IS a fallen away Catholic & my 4 children are pretty much Novus Ordo Catholics as it's all they have known. It's what they were taught in Catholic Schools in the 70's & 80's. They need more than me promoting Traditionalism. They need formal classes on the TLM. & Traditional Catholicism. They need encouragement from the pulpit. Please pray for my family. I'm SO looking forward to Ash Wednesday tomorrow & Lent. My Lent has been SO MUCH BETTER since I've found a parish that is Traditional.

[TrentCath]

I think that Summorum Pontificum means that more people are trads.  Over all, that is a good thing, but it means one is likely to encounter more diversity among us.

I'm a Summorum Pontificum trad.  My first TLM was the day it came into effect.  I have always had access to a diocesan approved TLM.  I never had my status as a Catholic questioned because I attend this Mass.  I'm not an angry trad. I don't have anything to be angry about.  I don't think that this is the same as being "watered down".

Summorum Pontificum was my Salvation. My first TLM. was probably 2 wks. after I was born............in Nov. of 1941. I'm not an  "angry trad", either........though I may have more right to be than many here. My Church was literally taken from me when I was 28 yrs. old & I hung in there until about 2,005. That was when I began missing Mass for the slightest reason. I would have probably become a "fallen away" Catholic by now if it weren't for S.P. My husband IS a fallen away Catholic & my 4 children are pretty much Novus Ordo Catholics as it's all they have known. It's what they were taught in Catholic Schools in the 70's & 80's. They need more than me promoting Traditionalism. They need formal classes on the TLM. & Traditional Catholicism. They need encouragement from the pulpit. Please pray for my family. I'm SO looking forward to Ash Wednesday tomorrow & Lent. My Lent has been SO MUCH BETTER since I've found a parish that is Traditional.

God Bless you 

[Stubborn]

"Is Traditional Catholicism becoming watered down?"

Yes.

Could you please explain your thoughts on this, Vetus? I think your input would be interesting.

The explanation is simple, almost mathematical when you think about it.

The moment the TLM became "mainstream," which was slowly set in motion by SP back in 2007, traditional Catholicism was progressively flooded with modern Catholics that brought with them, to some extent, the bias of modern worldviews, political correctness and even modernist errors. This will only intensify as the old mass and traditional congregations eventually grow. The train has already left the station so it's pretty much unstoppable now.

The good thing about this phenomenon is that the road is at least somewhat open for restoration. Becoming mainstream is the natural turn of events for the truth after all: the truth is mainstream by nature, not the exclusive property of a select few. At the same, there's the fear of contamination and compromise which might jeopardise the whole thing from the get-go. In my opinion, the outcome can only be one of the two:

1. Traditional Catholicism dissolves into the mainstream Church with all her "charisms": from the FSSP to Kiko's Neocatechumenals, etc.
2. Traditional Catholicism successfully purfies the mainstream Church, provoking a few schisms in between.

Great post Vetus!

I wonder how many folks reading this believe that we are living #1 or that SP actually aids the watering down and creates more division. It is this division that people have or will come to embrace under the name of "choice". Since V2, "divide and conquer" has been a very successful strategy, albeit now, they use the TLM as a part of their plan - quite brilliant on their part if you think about it.

On the one hand, the relaxing of the ban of the true mass is welcome to grace starved Catholics who are greatfull beyond measure - OTOH, SP now promotes the example of compromise openly, under the guise of unity. Same o same o been going on since V2.

IMO, most folks who consider themselves trads yet have remained immersed in or who sympathize in favor of the NO rather than guarding against it (as the Council should have guarded against it) will most likely disagree.

As long as the NO is the rule and until the NO is condemned officially, officially (with few exceptions) traditional Catholicism is being watered down right in front of everyone's eyes - which sadly, as things are now, means that odds are slim to none that  #2 will to come to fruition so long as the watering down from the ecumenical faucet remains turned on.

[Warrenton]

As long as the NO is the rule and until the NO is condemned officially, officially (with few exceptions) traditional Catholicism is being watered down right in front of everyone's eyes - which sadly, as things are now, means that odds are slim to none that  #2 will to come to fruition so long as the watering down from the ecumenical faucet remains turned on.

The answer to this question is properly found in scripture.  We have the Lord's warrant that whenever two or three are gathered together, the Lord will hear the prayer.  Since OT times, the presupposition for this grace means "properly gathered."  The TLM is the proper gathering for RCs.  The more are gathered, the more the Lord will hear the prayer.  Christ tells the story of the woman and the evil magistrate.  Her persistance pays off.  So will ours.  Time and again, Christ likens the Church to sowing of crops.  The more seed you sow, the higher the yeild.  Yes, the more seeds will fall by the wayside, and more "the enemy" will sow tares among the wheat, but the Lord deals with that part.  Vengeance is His.  He will repay.  Think back on the prayer of Abraham for Sodom.  Had just 50 people, or 10 people been righteous, the Lord would have spared the cities.  Clearly, numbers matter.  SP brings more Catholics in contact with proper spiritual development, and is pleasing to God.  God rewards what is pleasing to Him.  Proper sacrifice and contrition please the Lord.  So it is not a watering down, but an irrigation of the larger whole.

[JoniCath]

I think that Summorum Pontificum means that more people are trads.  Over all, that is a good thing, but it means one is likely to encounter more diversity among us.

I'm a Summorum Pontificum trad.  My first TLM was the day it came into effect.  I have always had access to a diocesan approved TLM.  I never had my status as a Catholic questioned because I attend this Mass.  I'm not an angry trad. I don't have anything to be angry about.  I don't think that this is the same as being "watered down".

Summorum Pontificum was my Salvation. My first TLM. was probably 2 wks. after I was born............in Nov. of 1941. I'm not an  "angry trad", either........though I may have more right to be than many here. My Church was literally taken from me when I was 28 yrs. old & I hung in there until about 2,005. That was when I began missing Mass for the slightest reason. I would have probably become a "fallen away" Catholic by now if it weren't for S.P. My husband IS a fallen away Catholic & my 4 children are pretty much Novus Ordo Catholics as it's all they have known. It's what they were taught in Catholic Schools in the 70's & 80's. They need more than me promoting Traditionalism. They need formal classes on the TLM. & Traditional Catholicism. They need encouragement from the pulpit. Please pray for my family. I'm SO looking forward to Ash Wednesday tomorrow & Lent. My Lent has been SO MUCH BETTER since I've found a parish that is Traditional.

God Bless you 

Thank You, Trent. My anger IS personal, which is why I haven't been to a Novus Ordo Mass since S.P. was promulgated.  It's the most horrible mixed-up feeling to be at Mass & be angry.  Pray for me that I might overcome this. I had to attend a N.O. funeral a couple of months ago. NOT GOOD!!!:angrywom:

[Might_4_Right]

I think the traditional movement, though small, is yet powerful and will overcome, by the providence of God, any possible ill intent by the designers of "Summorum Pontificum."  The Church herself will be transformed into what she always was intended to be.  (Acts 5:39- But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men;
you will only find yourselves fighting against God.)

[Warrenton]

Thank You, Trent. My anger IS personal, which is why I haven't been to a Novus Ordo Mass since S.P. was promulgated.  It's the most horrible mixed-up feeling to be at Mass & be angry. [/quote]

Amen.