Joining the Knights of Columbus?

[newyorkcatholic]

One popular trend among the Knights is holding meetings with Freemasons. 

The Knights even sponsor ecumenical meetings in Rome.  They gather money nation-wide for these events.

If you do join, and have influence, make the local chapter REALIZE and STOP these ANTI-CATHOLIC trends.

I'm wondering just exactly where this trend is "supposedly" popular 
As a 28 year Knight I've been a member in three different Councils, in addition to being a guest of a Council for a year (temporary work relocation).  In my current location I regularly attend events at and have friends in four neighboring councils, in additon to having the same relationship with my previous council. I've never seen, heard of, or experiences this "trend" that you speak of.

It's pretty widespread.   

That doesn't exactly answer my question.  It can't be very wide spread or the Knights up in my parts would be aware of it; they aren't.

I've also never heard of such a thing.

[jovan66102]

Just a bit of info from Masonic websites. Does anybody have the denials from the appropriate local or State Councils that this exercise in the 'new ecumenism' is not taking place. The allegation in the second should be verifiable from the public records of the charitable organisations.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm

In 2002, we became aware of a website belonging to a Knights of Columbus chapter in California. Their Webmaster went to some length to disparage Freemasonry using the old chestnuts including the Papal Encyclicals from 1738. It's too bad that there are bigots everywhere and that one person can so poison the well. Fortunately, such hatred does NOT appear on the national organization's website and there are many instances of Knights of Columbus members and Masons working together for the betterment of all mankind. In 2004, we noted that the intolerance and bigotry of Council #1271 of San Luis Obispo at their site formerly titled knightline.org was not only gone but the site's name was up for sale as well. Good riddance to that kind of pedantic hatred!

From the website of the Grand Lodge of Indiana:

http://www.themasonictrowel.com/masonic_talk/stb/stbs/74-03.htm

Several times each year, officers and leaders of our Grand Lodge meet together with leaders and representatives of the Indiana State Council of the Knights of Columbus, for an evening of social fellowship, and to explore new avenues of cooperation in our mutual interests and pursuits. As a token of friendship, each organization has contributed modestly to the other's foremost charity, they to our Indiana Masonic Home at Franklin, and we to their Gibault Home for Boys near Terre Haute.

Across the length and breadth of our state, and at many intermediate points in between, Lodges and Councils have extended to each other the arm of friendship in many ways. Hopefully, this new friendship and relationship will grow deeper and more meaningful to all of us in the months and years to come.

Let it be said emphatically that our joint meetings contain no effort or attempt, overt or otherwise, to solicit members or to have any joint venture but those of purely social intent, whereby we become better acquainted with each other's philosophies and views, aims, and purposes.

And so I am pleased to report to you that the status of our relations with the Knights of Columbus is good. Notwithstanding the events of history, there is no reason for our relationship to be other than good, or less than good. If you and your Lodge have not experienced the pleasure that comes from making new friends in your community, then perhaps you will want to give that ecumenical spirit a try, provided the members of your respective Lodges will give you their unqualified and enthusiastic support. I caution you that the support of your Lodge is important. If, after discreet exploration you find that kind of support, extend the invitation for a friendly relationship, or respond favorably to an invitation if it is extended to you and your Lodge.

[The Curt Jester]

Around here, some guy was trying to get me to join the K of C and I thought about it and was leaning against not joining.  One day he tried to sell me raffle tickets INSIDE the church - not the basement, or the office, but that actual church - and that's when I decided for sure I wouldn't join.   I know it was just one person, but that really left a bad taste in my mouth.

[GottmitunsAlex]

Just a bit of info from Masonic websites. Does anybody have the denials from the appropriate local or State Councils that this exercise in the 'new ecumenism' is not taking place. The allegation in the second should be verifiable from the public records of the charitable organisations.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm

In 2002, we became aware of a website belonging to a Knights of Columbus chapter in California. Their Webmaster went to some length to disparage Freemasonry using the old chestnuts including the Papal Encyclicals from 1738. It's too bad that there are bigots everywhere and that one person can so poison the well. Fortunately, such hatred does NOT appear on the national organization's website and there are many instances of Knights of Columbus members and Masons working together for the betterment of all mankind. In 2004, we noted that the intolerance and bigotry of Council #1271 of San Luis Obispo at their site formerly titled knightline.org was not only gone but the site's name was up for sale as well. Good riddance to that kind of pedantic hatred!

From the website of the Grand Lodge of Indiana:

http://www.themasonictrowel.com/masonic_talk/stb/stbs/74-03.htm

Several times each year, officers and leaders of our Grand Lodge meet together with leaders and representatives of the Indiana State Council of the Knights of Columbus, for an evening of social fellowship, and to explore new avenues of cooperation in our mutual interests and pursuits. As a token of friendship, each organization has contributed modestly to the other's foremost charity, they to our Indiana Masonic Home at Franklin, and we to their Gibault Home for Boys near Terre Haute.

Across the length and breadth of our state, and at many intermediate points in between, Lodges and Councils have extended to each other the arm of friendship in many ways. Hopefully, this new friendship and relationship will grow deeper and more meaningful to all of us in the months and years to come.

Let it be said emphatically that our joint meetings contain no effort or attempt, overt or otherwise, to solicit members or to have any joint venture but those of purely social intent, whereby we become better acquainted with each other's philosophies and views, aims, and purposes.

And so I am pleased to report to you that the status of our relations with the Knights of Columbus is good. Notwithstanding the events of history, there is no reason for our relationship to be other than good, or less than good. If you and your Lodge have not experienced the pleasure that comes from making new friends in your community, then perhaps you will want to give that ecumenical spirit a try, provided the members of your respective Lodges will give you their unqualified and enthusiastic support. I caution you that the support of your Lodge is important. If, after discreet exploration you find that kind of support, extend the invitation for a friendly relationship, or respond favorably to an invitation if it is extended to you and your Lodge.

This should be in a sticky thread/post in the main forum. Very important information.

[moneil]

First let me say I imagine no ill will on the part of either LoneWolfRadTrad or Jovan.  I may be wrong but I assume that perhaps LWRT is not and has never been a Knight and read some anti KC propaganda which he in good faith thought was accurate.  There is still plenty of anti Catholic agitation going on out there and the Knights have always been a convenient target.

I am not part of the Indiana state conference and I have no idea what they do.  That posting though hardly is “proof” of a “trend”, and I am not prone to be cruising Masonic web sites in any case, and certainly not for authoritative and accurate information regarding the KC.

That said, yes the mainstream Church and the affiliate organizations associated with it are more open to working on behalf of charity and community needs with diverse groups that they would have had no association with during the pre VII “counter reformation”.  Actually, pre VII (about 1960 or 1961) Catholics were permitted to attend a Shrine Circus; the local shriners had a circus company come to town and all proceeds went to support the Shrine Childrens Hospital in Spokane, at which a local severely crippled Catholic child (Cerebral Palsy I believe) received substantial treatment and care at no charge.  Maybe it was the pre VII Church at started this supposed “popular trend”.   I have seen in the “Knights in Action” section of Columbia Magazine (which I don’t read all that closely) random mention of an odd KC – Masonic dinner or event to raise money for charity.  More typically it’s a broader community event at which KC’s, Elks, Moose, Eagles, Lions, Rotary, Kiwanis, J.C.’s, Masons and whoever else come together for common community causes (golf scrambles seem to be a popular activity in this arena).  I did just scrutinize the February issue of Columbia and find no such collaborations mentioned.  The six pages of the “Knights in Action” section are all about what Councils have done ON THEIR OWN which has been the modus operandi of ALL the councils I’m familiar with.

I am still failing to see this supposed “popular trend”.

As I had mentioned most Councils would have a decidedly Novus Ordo culture about them and someone desiring a distinctively pre VII traditional atmosphere might not necessarily feel “at home” as a Knight.  It was nice to learn that there are some “traditionalist” Councils out there, and may that trend grow.  If being a Knight is not what someone is called to do by all means don’t.  I don’t see the need to spread calumny.  Would it not be more edifying for people to share about the other Catholic organizations they are active in and what those groups accomplish?  LoneWolf did speak of the Knights Immaculata, though it would be interesting to hear of what they do, especially at a local level.

Last year (these may be 2010 numbers) financial help exceeding $2.8 has been provided to future priests, sisters and brothers,. Since 1981 the Order has provided more than $49.9 million in aid through RSVP, helping more than 80,000 men and women follow their vocations.

I just learned last week that my council (a small one with only 70 members) provided $1,000 to a seminarian at the North American College in Rome whose mother had just died.  His father has been unemployed and was unable to afford to have the son come home for the funeral.

Last year (these may be 2010 numbers) $154 million was contributed to charitable needs and projects and more than 70 million volunteer hours were provided.

Since 2009 more than $2.4 million has been raised and dispersed to provide ultrasound machines to pregnancy aid centers in 30 states (as of January 2011).

This is the “popular trend” of what the Knights do.

[LoneWolfRadTrad]

Joint efforts to acquire funds will not lead to anything good if the Freemasons donate to whomever meets THEIR standards of needing the money.  And I know the Knights gather funds from around the US which they send to fund ecumenical meetings in Rome.

[moneil]

Joint efforts to acquire funds will not lead to anything good if the Freemasons donate to whomever meets THEIR standards of needing the money.  And I know the Knights gather funds from around the US which they send to fund ecumenical meetings in Rome.

I think it best for the Knights to work on their own, which has ALWAYS been my experience.  In the FEW instances I've read about (in far away places) where the Knights have teamed up with a VARIETYof other organizations in a fund raising effort it has been for some benign community good.  A few month ago I recall seeing something about a joint effort (a dinner if I recall) to provide new uniforms and instruments for the local High School band.  I certainly agree that there are better ways and better causes for the Knights, but these things have never happened in any council i'm familiar with.

I'm still failing to see this so called "popular trend".

If you "know" about these suppossed funds being sent to Rome for purported "ecumenical meetings" perhaps you could provide some information, such as dates, the nature of the meeting, the sponsor of the event, the atendees, perhaps even a link?

[LoneWolfRadTrad]

Joint efforts to acquire funds will not lead to anything good if the Freemasons donate to whomever meets THEIR standards of needing the money.  And I know the Knights gather funds from around the US which they send to fund ecumenical meetings in Rome.

I think it best for the Knights to work on their own, which has ALWAYS been my experience.  In the FEW instances I've read about (in far away places) where the Knights have teamed up with a VARIETYof other organizations in a fund raising effort it has been for some benign community good.  A few month ago I recall seeing something about a joint effort (a dinner if I recall) to provide new uniforms and instruments for the local High School band.  I certainly agree that there are better ways and better causes for the Knights, but these things have never happened in any council i'm familiar with.

I'm still failing to see this so called "popular trend".

If you "know" about these suppossed funds being sent to Rome for purported "ecumenical meetings" perhaps you could provide some information, such as dates, the nature of the meeting, the sponsor of the event, the atendees, perhaps even a link?

Sorry, it was 2006 or 2007 when I came across the article.  I mean, I'm not making it up, I just don't know where to find it now.

[GottmitunsAlex]

Joint efforts to acquire funds will not lead to anything good if the Freemasons donate to whomever meets THEIR standards of needing the money.  And I know the Knights gather funds from around the US which they send to fund ecumenical meetings in Rome.

I think it best for the Knights to work on their own, which has ALWAYS been my experience.  In the FEW instances I've read about (in far away places) where the Knights have teamed up with a VARIETYof other organizations in a fund raising effort it has been for some benign community good.  A few month ago I recall seeing something about a joint effort (a dinner if I recall) to provide new uniforms and instruments for the local High School band.  I certainly agree that there are better ways and better causes for the Knights, but these things have never happened in any council i'm familiar with.

I'm still failing to see this so called "popular trend".

If you "know" about these suppossed funds being sent to Rome for purported "ecumenical meetings" perhaps you could provide some information, such as dates, the nature of the meeting, the sponsor of the event, the atendees, perhaps even a link?

Sorry, it was 2006 or 2007 when I came across the article.  I mean, I'm not making it up, I just don't know where to find it now.

From Time Life Magazine 1966

Ecumenism: Knights & Masons Together
Friday, Aug. 19, 1966


When Ervin Kotowski was installed recently as grand knight of Milwaukee's largest Knights of Columbus Council, he got a telegram of congratulations from Circuit Judge Claire Voss, imperial potentate of the city's big Tripoli Masonic Shrine. Exclaimed Kotowski: "Imagine the Shriners congratulating me!" A lot of brotherly things that would have been hard to imagine a few years ago are happening today be tween the Roman Catholic Knights and their longtime antagonists, the predominantly Protestant Masons.

Almost every day, the Knights (U.S. membership: 1,184,000) and the Masons (U.S. membership: 4,500,000) jointly sponsor some local charity drive; almost every night, two groups get to gether for bowling matches or common meetings. In Madison, Wis., for example, the Knights and the Shriners co-sponsored a charity bazaar. In Tacoma, Wash., Columbians and Shriners gathered for what one ecumenical enthusiast called "a real bash." And in Hartford, Conn., the Knights have joined with the Masons and B'nai B'rith to form a brotherhood committee rep resenting a combined membership of 100,000. Says Supreme Knight John W. McDevitt, national head of the Catholic organization: "It's high time for the dissipation of any recriminations, disaffections or petty jealousies that may have formed a barrier be tween the Knights of Columbus and the Masonic Order."

Cooling the Militancy. Masons and Catholics have been on the outs ever since Pope Clement XII in 1738 issued the first papal bull condemning the Masons on the ground that their beliefs and rituals amount to a false religion. Catholics are still forbidden to join the Masons under pain of excommunication. For their part, the Masons have seldom been reluctant in the past to condemn the Catholic Church.

Largely because bias excluded Catholics from many social clubs, the Knights of Columbus was started in 1882, and since then has often taken a militant attitude toward non-Catholics. This old-fashioned militancy has gradually been cooling off on both sides, but the real impetus toward cooperation came from Vatican II.

The change is affecting many other Catholic lay groups. A year ago, Boston's Catholic community noted with interest that Cardinal Gushing gave permission for a parish Holy Name Society to have a non-Catholic speaker on religious matters. Now no permission at all is needed for Boston Catholic groups to invite Protestant or Jewish speakers, and the cardinal himself recently addressed the Masons' Brotherhood Lodge (subject: ecumenism). In St. Louis, some Holy Name Societies sponsor monthly meetings of Catholics and Protestants to discuss theology, with the groups alternating in choosing the topics. Catholic parent-teacher groups in San Francisco have switched discussions from such themes as "Patron Saint of the Month" to "Communication with Non-Catholic Brothers." And the National Councils of Catholic Men and Women are distributing 20,000 "Grass Roots Ecumenism Kits," which contain six booklets on such topics as Jewish-Christian dialogues.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,836270,00.html
http://www.themasonictrowel.com/masonic_talk/stb/stbs/74-03.htm


While I was looking for more niddy griddy of the KofC and masons, I happened upon this page (nothing to to with the topic)
but I am appalled at all the different "ministries" this Diocese of Richmond website has. Annulments (guaranteed), ecumenism, social justice, 
http://www.richmondcathedral.org/ecumenical/ecumenical.htm

Hey, how bout that 1966 Time Life article?

[Phillipus Iacobus]

From Time Life Magazine 1966

Ecumenism: Knights & Masons Together
Friday, Aug. 19, 1966

Nearly 50 years of Revolution. Before the council, such as thing was unthinkable.