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Author Topic: Is the Mass a "feast"?  (Read 1225 times)
Jesusbrea
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« on: March 04, 2012, 09:15:AM »

Many NO try to define the Mass as a feast as an excuse to indulge in abusive practices like, for example, Cdl. Schonborn and his famous "balloon mass". Is it really a "feast"? I know It is done on feast days, especially Sunday is considered a feast day, but is it right to say that the Mass is a feast with Christ? do they mean "party"?
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Mithrandylan
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2012, 10:23:AM »

It's not a party, if that's what you mean.  It may be described as a meal or banquet but never in place of a sacrifice.  The mass is first and foremost a sacrifice and the emphasis should be on that point, so there's really no reason to call it anything else (especially nowadays when people really have no clue) even if referring to it as a meal or banquet wouldn't technically be "wrong."  It's a sacrifice first and foremost, and all it's merit for us is sacrificial as well. 

I think I've read some saints refer to it as a sacrificial banquet, too. 
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Tim
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2012, 11:02:AM »

We were taught before the event, that the Mass was the Sacrifice of the Mass foremost, and in a way the Lamb's Feast here on earth. The new Mass has a bit from The Apocalypse "Beati qui ad Cenam, Agni vocati sunt". Taken out of context and inserted in the Mass it has changed the emphasis to a banquet. More the passage, in the Apocalypse, is taking place in Heaven. It is a glimpse of what takes place there. The passage comes from Apocalypse 19; 9, but the word nuptiarum is omitted, which then brings the feast down to earth.

I'm no theologian, but my take.

tim
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2012, 02:28:PM »

Yes, despite the modern abuses promoted under the cloak of the reformed missal, it's correct to point out that the Christian liturgy is also a "feast," a feast of faith, of spiritual rejoicing, where the regenerate children of God having been "justified freely by his grace, through the redemption, that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom 3:24) gather together to worship Him and proclaim the hope and faith in the risen Christ, being "filled with the holy Spirit, speaking to" themselves "in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual canticles, singing and making melody in" their "hearts to the Lord" (Eph. 5:18-19), partaking of the Eucharist in remembrance of Hist death, "for as often as" they "shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice," they "shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come." (1 Cor. 11:26) It's not merely the renewal of the sacrifice of calvary, but also the pure "worship of the Father in spirit and in truth" (John 4:23) that Christ foretold to the Samaritan woman, in cheerful anticipation of the Parousia. Together with St. John, the Church in every generation awaits and proclaims: "Come, Lord Jesus." (Rev. 22:20). So it's a feast, as well as a sacrifice.

Remember the purposes for which the liturgy is celebrated: First, to adore God our Lord, Creator and Redeemer. Secondly, to thank Him for His many favours. Thirdly, to ask Him to bestow His blessings upon us. Finally, to satisfy His justice for the sins committed against Him. Whilst the propitiatory nature of the Christian liturgy has been obscured or denied by many modernists, let's keep in mind that satisfaction not the only end of the liturgical feast, but also adoration, thanksgiving and petition. One way to approach this question is to consider the four most important things that we learn to say as children: "I love you," "Thank you," "Please," and "I’m sorry." These four simple sayings are not only capable of directing both young and old onto the path toward human happiness; they also provide a useful analogy for what happens at every mass.
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Jesusbrea
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 11:08:PM »

Yes, despite the modern abuses promoted under the cloak of the reformed missal, it's correct to point out that the Christian liturgy is also a "feast," a feast of faith, of spiritual rejoicing, where the regenerate children of God having been "justified freely by his grace, through the redemption, that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom 3:24) gather together to worship Him and proclaim the hope and faith in the risen Christ, being "filled with the holy Spirit, speaking to" themselves "in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual canticles, singing and making melody in" their "hearts to the Lord" (Eph. 5:18-19), partaking of the Eucharist in remembrance of Hist death, "for as often as" they "shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice," they "shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come." (1 Cor. 11:26) It's not merely the renewal of the sacrifice of calvary, but also the pure "worship of the Father in spirit and in truth" (John 4:23) that Christ foretold to the Samaritan woman, in cheerful anticipation of the Parousia. Together with St. John, the Church in every generation awaits and proclaims: "Come, Lord Jesus." (Rev. 22:20). So it's a feast, as well as a sacrifice.

Remember the purposes for which the liturgy is celebrated: First, to adore God our Lord, Creator and Redeemer. Secondly, to thank Him for His many favours. Thirdly, to ask Him to bestow His blessings upon us. Finally, to satisfy His justice for the sins committed against Him. Whilst the propitiatory nature of the Christian liturgy has been obscured or denied by many modernists, let's keep in mind that satisfaction not the only end of the liturgical feast, but also adoration, thanksgiving and petition. One way to approach this question is to consider the four most important things that we learn to say as children: "I love you," "Thank you," "Please," and "I’m sorry." These four simple sayings are not only capable of directing both young and old onto the path toward human happiness; they also provide a useful analogy for what happens at every mass.


I concur with that, I guess the problem is the emphasis and the current aception of feast, and in spanish "feast" and "party" are very interchangeable concepts, so there lies the dilemma. I really think in spanish "fiesta" is not the most convenient term to describe it, because it really reads "party" to many people; at least my two cents.

And tim points quite correctly to the Apocalypse. However, it needs to be known by the people that it is Sacrifice first and feast second; therefore tambourine and dancing and clapping is not appropriate
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Parmandur
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 02:27:AM »

This is a detail which is often lost on contemporary folks who have no tradition of animal sacrifice, but sacrifices are feasts, as much of the sacrificed animal gets eaten by the priests and the people.  That doesn't mean anything goes, they are solemn occasions.  But they are occasions of feasting, and we do feast on the Body and Blood of our Savior, the Sacrificial Lamb.
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INPEFESS
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 03:25:AM »

No, the Mass properly speaking is not exclusively identified as a feast. The Mass is the propitiatory sacrifice; Communion is the feast. This is evidenced in many placed in Scripture, one of which is the parable concerning the man who comes to the wedding feast not clothed in a wedding garment. The Church does not forbid one, who isn't wearing a wedding garment, to attend Mass; rather, the Church forbids one, who isn't wearing a wedding garment, from participating in Communion, which is the wedding feast held in celebration of the union between Christ and His spouse, the Church. This union (where Christ is united in One Body with His Spouse, the Church) is the sacrifice of the Mass (the sacraments [symbolized by blood and water] poured forth from the side of Christ upon the Cross), and the feast is the consumption of the sacrifice by the partakers of that sacrifice. Thus, the feast proceeds as an effect of the sacrifice. This is a typological reflection of the Old Testament sacrifices in which the Jews would consume the oblation after the sacrifice had been offered. They are two parts of a whole. Though it may be said that the Mass incorporates the feast, it is not correct to define the Mass as a feast because that overlooks the very source of the feast and marginalizes the sacrifice, which ultimately destroys the meaning of the Mass. 

The reason Apocalypse refers it as a feast is that once we are in Heaven the sacrifice is no longer necessary to be offered for us, since we cannot be separated from the Beatific Vision. Instead, we participate in the eternal effects of the Sacrifice, which is the consumption of the Lamb of God, which is intimate union with God.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 03:44:AM by INPEFESS » Logged

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"The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative magisterium" (Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, no.  9, June 29, 1896).

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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 09:00:AM »

The language of food and feasting is often found in the postcommunion.

enutrio - nourished, feed
refectio sancta - holy refreshment

Feasting in the sense of a holy partaking of holy food, is one aspect of the Mass.

Taste and see that the Lord is sweet: blessed is the man that hopes in him. Ps 33:9
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Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the Tree of Life and enter the city through its gates.

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Stubborn
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 09:38:AM »

Many NO try to define the Mass as a feast as an excuse to indulge in abusive practices like, for example, Cdl. Schonborn and his famous "balloon mass". Is it really a "feast"? I know It is done on feast days, especially Sunday is considered a feast day, but is it right to say that the Mass is a feast with Christ? do they mean "party"?

The NO mass is a feast of putrid food designed to spiritually sicken and starve the soul.

What is it that is offered in the NOM? "bread...which earth has given and human hands have made"  "wine...fruit of the vine and work of human hands"  (Preparation of the Gifts)
Stated Purpose of the Sacrifice:"to become the bread of life"  "to become our spiritual drink"  (Preparation of the Gifts)

What is offered in the TLM?  "unspotted host", "chalice of salvation", "sacrifice", "oblation"  (Offertory prayers)
Stated Purpose of the Sacrifice: "for sins", “For all faithful Christians, living and dead", "for salvation unto life everlasting", "for the glory of Thy holy name" (Offertory prayers)

Is it any wonder that many NO define the Mass as a feast?
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It is the Mass that matters.

But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. -Apocalypse  3:16
Tim
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 10:23:AM »

Stubborn:

"The NO mass is a feast of putrid food designed to spiritually sicken and starve the soul."

I'd be very careful with this. To paraphrase Scripture, if this is not from God it will go away, but if it is you will find yourself opposing God. The NO Mass will rise or fall of it's own merits, yet for now God allows it. Before you go off on me, I personally have been to perhaps 20 NO Masses in 64 years. It is one thing to criticise it point by point, but to characterise it as you have is disgusting.

tim   
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