Habitual_Ritual
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« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2012, 07:10:PM » |
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. The "life" that would result from such an event would be extremely primitive -- a single-celled organism that would barely meet our definition of "life", and would be microscopic in size.
Modern Molecular biology has shown that there is nothing primitive about life at the cellular level.They are enormously complex bio-chemical machines undertaking a vast array of complicated processes.Your views on evolution are about 40-60 years out of date. The ever increasing revelations about the complexity of life at all levels is causing evolutionary science a whole lot of headaches these days.The Spontaneous creation of even one cell,now understood to be so complex and perfect in its internal workings is a big FAIL for evolution. I am only 57 years old, and I have read things within the last 20 years that were current when I read them. My views may be somewhat out of date, but not that much. I am aware of the complexity of life at the cellular level, but: (a) I was not referring to current single-celled lifeforms, but the very first lifeforms that hypothetically evolved billions of years ago. These would have been quite simple. (b) Even if we are looking at current lifeforms, single-celled creatures are relatively primitive compared to a large multicellular animal. My point was that a table is not going to turn into an elephant. If life coming from non-life occurs at all, it must occur at a much lower level. That's all I was saying. A viable cell,even your most hypothetically simple sort (would love a breakdown of what this might be) must be able to performs at the very least the following functions: Growth and metabolism Creation Protein synthesis Just these 3 activities alone require an immense and as yet little understand Bio-chemical set of machines to coordinate these activities.A lightning bolt in a pool of chemical sludge can't hope to achieve this level of creation. Indeed, scientists spend decades pumping electricity into the most bio-viable pool sludge's they could concoct with zero success. |
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« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 07:12:PM by Habitual_Ritual »
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" There exists now an enormous religious ignorance. In the times since the Council it is evident we have failed to pass on the content of the Faith.”
(Pope Benedict XVI speaking in October 2002.)
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Phillipus Iacobus
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« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2012, 07:54:PM » |
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The lunacy of abiogenesis. Essentially, ex nihilo on their own terms.
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formerbuddhist
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« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2012, 08:55:PM » |
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It's much simpler to just trust Genesis and the Church Fathers. At least it is for me. A great book tackling Genesis from the perspective of the Fathers is the latest edition of Genesis, Creation and Early Man by the late Russian Orthodox Hieromonk Seraphim Rose. Interestingly enough in the book it shows how now many in Russia are leading the charge against evolution and trying to teach a patristic view of creation in the schools. Great stuff if you ask me.
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Walk before God in simplicity, and not in subtleties of the mind. Simplicity brings faith; but subtle and intricate speculations bring conceit; and conceit brings withdrawal from God. -Saint Isaac of Syria, Directions on Spiritual Training
"It is impossible in human terms to exaggerate the importance of being in a church or chapel before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. I very seldom repeat what I say. Let me repeat this sentence. It is impossible in human language to exaggerate the importance of being in a chapel or church before the Blessed Sacrament as often and for as long as our duties and state of life allow. That sentence is the talisman of the highest sanctity. "Father John Hardon
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ggreg
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Don't hate what you cannot have
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« Reply #83 on: April 12, 2012, 04:13:AM » |
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Dawkin's needs to be mocked for "believing" a worm can turn into an elephant.
Kent Hovind used to condense evolution into the following quite nicely (paraphrasing)
"it rained on the rocks for millions of years and turned them into soup. And the soup came alive about three billion years ago. And this early life form found someone to marry. (A pretty good trick!) And something to eat. And very slowly evolved into everything we see today. That is the evolutionary teaching in a nutshell. "
People on this forum believe that. As does Cardinal Pell and many other bishops in the Church. A Priest who says the Traditional Mass Fr. John Boyle also believes in Polygenism. He told me so himself. He is connected with the faith movement and they are al evolutionists. Belief in evolution is becoming more common even among Traditionalists and in the Novus Ordo camp I imagine most of them believe in evolution or don't care. |
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ggreg
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Don't hate what you cannot have
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« Reply #84 on: April 12, 2012, 04:26:AM » |
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"Punctuated equilibrium" is scientific jargon for "we don't have a bloody clue so we just make stuff up and call it fancy names."
Agreed, but the bishops of the Church largely accept Darwinian evolution and largely reject a literal Adam and Eve. |
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #85 on: April 12, 2012, 11:14:AM » |
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"Punctuated equilibrium" is scientific jargon for "we don't have a bloody clue so we just make stuff up and call it fancy names."
Agreed, but the bishops of the Church largely accept Darwinian evolution and largely reject a literal Adam and Eve. Most bishops of the church aren't real bishops to begin with so it's no surprise there. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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Warrenton
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« Reply #86 on: April 12, 2012, 11:17:AM » |
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Dawkin's needs to be mocked for "believing" a worm can turn into an elephant.
Kent Hovind used to condense evolution into the following quite nicely (paraphrasing)
"it rained on the rocks for millions of years and turned them into soup. And the soup came alive about three billion years ago. And this early life form found someone to marry. (A pretty good trick!) And something to eat. And very slowly evolved into everything we see today. That is the evolutionary teaching in a nutshell. "
People on this forum believe that. As does Cardinal Pell and many other bishops in the Church. A Priest who says the Traditional Mass Fr. John Boyle also believes in Polygenism. He told me so himself. He is connected with the faith movement and they are al evolutionists. Belief in evolution is becoming more common even among Traditionalists and in the Novus Ordo camp I imagine most of them believe in evolution or don't care. Who here believe such things? Some, perhaps, may admit the theoretical possibility based on prevailing scientific understanding, but I would be surprised if anyone would hold those possibilities over divinely revealed truth or tradition. Most people who claim to believe in evolution cannot even differentiate between that theory and natural selection. The latter is observable, and explains how predators do not outstrip the available prey. It does not explain change over time. Most people who claim to believe in evolution cannot begin to explain the rate that it allegegly occurs at, or if the rate is not constant, what factors could conceivably affect the rate. Obviously, any theory that must, by definition, exist within finite time, must have a rate. Evolution without a rate is about as helpful as a mortgate without a rate: "You owe me money, but I don't know how much or when the loan will come due." It is an interesting notion, nothing more. |
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I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thy honour dwelleth
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ggreg
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Don't hate what you cannot have
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« Reply #87 on: April 12, 2012, 11:29:AM » |
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"Punctuated equilibrium" is scientific jargon for "we don't have a bloody clue so we just make stuff up and call it fancy names."
Agreed, but the bishops of the Church largely accept Darwinian evolution and largely reject a literal Adam and Eve. Most bishops of the church aren't real bishops to begin with so it's no surprise there. Accepted, but I am surprised God lets it go on for so long. He brings the "good news" to the world and then we sort of have a holiday from it for a human lifetime? A great apostacy within a 10-30 year period I could understand, but a general and worldwide apostacy running for longer than a human lifetime does seem to imply that those who lived within it did not really live in a Christian era. We are at least 50 years into this confusion now and so would argue more. Most of us have never know a time when we could trust most of the Catholic priests we met to believe and have the faith. That is a weird situation. The last 5 Popes have basically not taught the faith at all. They've either been silent or downright destructive. Conservative Cardinals say "Adam and Eve are a myth", a "story told for religious purposes". (basically like the tooth fairy) |
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #88 on: April 12, 2012, 11:42:AM » |
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"Punctuated equilibrium" is scientific jargon for "we don't have a bloody clue so we just make stuff up and call it fancy names."
Agreed, but the bishops of the Church largely accept Darwinian evolution and largely reject a literal Adam and Eve. Most bishops of the church aren't real bishops to begin with so it's no surprise there. Accepted, but I am surprised God lets it go on for so long. He brings the "good news" to the world and then we sort of have a holiday from it for a human lifetime? A great apostacy within a 10-30 year period I could understand, but a general and worldwide apostacy running for longer than a human lifetime does seem to imply that those who lived within it did not really live in a Christian era. We are at least 50 years into this confusion now and so would argue more. Most of us have never know a time when we could trust most of the Catholic priests we met to believe and have the faith. That is a weird situation. The last 5 Popes have basically not taught the faith at all. They've either been silent or downright destructive. Conservative Cardinals say "Adam and Eve are a myth", a "story told for religious purposes". (basically like the tooth fairy) Perhaps you misunderstood me, ggreg, but I was not arguing in favour of the sedevacantist hypothesis. I think sedevacantism (or sedeprivationism) is a bit of a stretch and makes Christ's promises, as understood and taught by the Catholic Church, to be suspicious if not false as more years go by. On the other hand, and as I said before in other threads, that's not the only hypothesis to explain our current predicament. In any case, when I said they weren't real bishops, I wasn't talking about the validity of the rite of episcopal consecration or something along those lines, but rather that they do not perform the duty of bishops. A bishop who doesn't behave and believe as a bishop is no bishop at all. |
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)
"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome
"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
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ggreg
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Don't hate what you cannot have
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« Reply #89 on: April 13, 2012, 05:56:AM » |
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Then we have very few Bishops.
And Pell is not a Cardinal.
Which is worrying, because he is a "conservative" relative to the rest of the liberals.
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