Institute of the Good Shepherd told to align with Vatican II

[maldon]

Gerard said something that strikes a wise chord. Look, the SSPX leaders have limited life spans like the rest of us. But the presence of Christ in the sacraments will continue. For all we know, the SSPX hierarchy will agree with Rome not because they now all of a sudden embrace VII or Assisi, but because, with an apostolic spirit, they want to reach as many people as humanly possible, and be good confessors and deliver the sacraments to as many people as possible, for the healing of the nations, as Revelation says. The SSPX could join up tomorrow and never give 2 hoots about CCC or anything else, but just obtain faculties and a canonical structure to reach as many people as possible. And since teh SSPX is not the Church itself, they would be right. The Church is perennial, sometimes sick, sometimes healthy. But perennial. The SSPX is not. They are like a bunch of doctors in the time of the plague on the borders of a stricken village. They don;t have to become like all the villagers. They just want to get in and work.

[JuniorCouncilor]

Not sure to say about some of what's been said in this thread.  This is a remarkably dark time, and requires unusual faith.

That said, I think one should be really careful about even implying that one might leave the Faith out of intellectual honesty.  God would never allow such a thing, but He might well allow it to seem so to the one leaving.

By no means do I want to criticize those who don't know what to think any further than that-- I don't know what to think about all of it myself.  I think we should just stick with St. Vincent de Lerins:  if the whole world seems to change, stick with the Church of all time.

For the rest, I do expect God to restore order within my lifetime, provided my life isn't ended suddenly and by surprise.  I probably wouldn't think so if it weren't for Our Lady of Fatima-- I would expect the consummation presented in Lord of the World instead.  But then, I think God sent Our Lady of Fatima for a very important reason:  we absolutely had to have her, in His divine plan.

In any case, God's grace is sufficient.  All we have to do is trust in Him, then wait and hope.

[Resurrexi]

I'm pretty sure any seminarian would benefit from reading Humanae vitae, Ordinatio sacerdotalis, and Evangelium vitae.

[Aragon]

I'm not going to worry about the threats and historical teachings of a religion that has turned other teachings on their head.

If a religion claims to have a batphone or hotline to the Almighty and the protection of the Holy Ghost then I expect the Holy Ghost to do something to resolve those contradictions before I die.  If God wants to judge me in justice then he has to work to my timeline, because it is all I have to reach a conclusion.

We expect Mormons and Islamics to use reason to see that their faiths are in error because of glaring contradictions and crazy beliefs.  But we won't subject our own to the same acid tests.

That seems pretty cultish to me.

This probably won't be solved completely before you die. The Arian crises lasted for much longer than one man's lifetime. If you think that Christ's promise means any problems that arise are solved quickly and smoothly then you should have a look at Church history. Lots of bad bishops and popes, heretical priests, and ambiguous doctrinal statements leading to confusion. It always gets sorted out, but never on our time. "The Church thinks in centuries" and all that.

You know that the reforms don't change the core, de fide doctrines you need to believe. Much of it is disciplinary or about the expression and formulation of the doctrine. Why not just keep the Faith, pray, and receive the sacraments? The crisis in the Church doesn't change the fact that God exists, Christ was God, and Christ founded the Catholic Church.

[ggreg]

I honestly do not believe that for the average pew warming catholic the events of the past were as bad.  For one thing during the Arian heresy they did not have 2000 years of consistent tradition to abandon.  For another the average pew warming catholic was busy working and had neither the time nor the education to be scandalised.

This is THE great apostasy if anything ever is.

[Aragon]

I honestly do not believe that for the average pew warming catholic the events of the past were as bad.  For one thing during the Arian heresy they did not have 2000 years of consistent tradition to abandon.  For another the average pew warming catholic was busy working and had neither the time nor the education to be scandalised.

This is THE great apostasy if anything ever is.

They abandoned a central tenant of Christianity which is taught explicitly in Holy Scripture, the creeds, and is the lynchpin for everything else. Its a worse heresy than anything Vatican II taught. You can't just expect God to fix this up when you want because, if He doesn't, you'll leave the Church. He doesn't have to do anything for you. He doesn't need you; but you need Him.

The Church has been through situations like this before and the answer has never been to leave. If you know a God exists, if you know Christ was divine, and if you know Christ founded the Catholic Church then why would you leave? All the scandal, bad priests, and shoddy theology don't negate those facts.

[James02]

If God does not crush the last 50 years of heresy visibly and publicly I will not die within the Catholic faith.

That is not a threat to God just a statement of fact about my thoughts.  I refuse to believe that a religion which contradicts itself and calls truth error and error truth and does so for so long and so publicly without God publicly punishing those shepherds incharge.

My credibility battery is virtually flat and without some sort of Divine intervention to recharge that battery and a public acknowledgement that the last 50 years were FUBAR I'm not going to be able to turn my starter motor over.

This is not a new thing.  I've felt like this for the best part of 20 years but as the years drag on I am more convinced.

Cheer up, the blood will flow soon enough.  The lack of action by God IS part of the chastisement.  The Church denied Original Sin, and it refused the request of the Mother of God, Our Lady of Sorrows, whose fiat purchased my salvation.  The Pope could just as well spat on her.  Then they lied their @$$ off.  In the meantime, the disobedience has ended up with the slaughter of babies and hundreds of millions of souls going to hell.  God's angry.  Justice at this point means every single one of us goes to hell over this.  The Lord said as much.  If these times had not been shortened, even the elect would be lost.  Now death does not "lose" the elect.  Heresy and apostacy do that.  So that is what He was talking about.

But the Lord is merciful.  In the interim, God has raised up Tradition.  He saved my sinful @SS, trust me.  Hopefully I'll have the grace to perservere.  Heck, if 100 million former Catholics had to burn in hell to bring me home, then I'm all for it.  Because I believe in hell.

Anyhow, at most you have only a few more years.  In the meantime, enjoy the view as God rubs the Pope's nose in the homosexual molestations, and when He had the Muslims get righteous on him when he quoted an historical teaching about Mohamet.  Or when He forced the Pope to bow and scrape before Obama and Pelosi.  The economic crash hasn't even started yet.  The US and Europe still have to default on about 100 TRILLION, which will bring widespread starvation and war.

Actually, don't take too much pleasure in the Glorious Wrath of God.  Instead, be mindful of your own sins and throw yourself on His mercy through Our Lady, who you honor.  I know that a healthy sense of justice is what drives you (and me), but it gets ugly.  You have business in the banking industry.  You probably appreciate more than me how big this thing is fixin to blow.

[James02]

Anyhow, this is grim news.  The IBP was set up as a test society for the SSPX.  I've been supporting them, and they are great priests.  This news is a serious blow to the current SSPX talks.  Let's hope Bishop Fellay will raise this set back during the next round of talks.

[James02]

Cheer up ggreg, the economic implosion deepens:

By Reuters

LONDON - Britain's economy slid into its second recession since the financial crisis after official data unexpectedly showed a fall in output in the first three months of 2012, piling pressure on Prime Minister David Cameron's embattled coalition government.

What will they do?  Go deeper into debt?  They are already drowning in it.  It's over, that is a fact.  Starvation stands ready to reap what was sown.  We are only in the first inning of the implosion.  Spain is fixing to blow.  I doubt they make it to 2013.  That's pay back for what they did to the Valley of the Fallen.  Italy will blow.  "Catholic" France will quickly follow.

Then revolution and blood.  Followed by WWIII.  It's clear to those who have eyes to see it.  Next up, the Greek elections in a few more days.  Get your pop corn ready and enjoy the show. Revolution in Greece to follow.  And when things look like they couldn't get worse, China, India and Pakistan will go at it.  Nukes will fly before this is over.  And the Pope will continue on about the New Springtime until the Lord relents and brings us a Trad Pope.  And he will probably not get the consecration done.  He'll do enough to save a few, and then payback for abortion will come.

Fr. Weslin will be avenged.