EF Priest adds NO Vigil Mass to schedule

[Parmandur]

Meh.  I'll trust the judgment of this priest that he's doing the right thing over arm chair theologians who get their ecclesiology and liturgical expertise from screw ball sedevacantist websites. 

But that's just me.   

 

[tfaessler]

I agree that this is a welcome initiative for Catholics who wish to take part in a reverent and dignified Ordinary Form Mass, but for various reasons may not be ready for the EF Mass. Think of it as a bridge or stepping stone for them. We can all have our preferences on liturgy which the Church allows, as long as remember the words of Universae Ecclesiae (UE) that the two forms of the Roman rite and an expression of the **same** lex orandi of the Church - there is no getting around this - it is a very clear and unambiguous statement - we can then infer we think one form is a better expression of the lex orandi, but not that the Ordinary Form is not an expression, or a seriously deficient expression - that is simply untenable in light of the text of both SP and especially UE. Given UE has indicated the two forms of the Roman Rite are "one alongside the other" it makes perfect sense for an priest to offer both forms of the Roman Rite if there is a pastoral demand for that. In the case in question here, the EF community are not been disadvantaged in any way,  there is no dimunition of EF liturgies or resources, and the OF Masses in fact only constitute 5% of the liturgies each year.
In addition, in the apostolate in question, it had already been shown there was no demand for an EF Vigil Mass from the existing community. There has been interest from seminarians as well who are keen to learn how to celebrate the OF Mass like this. There have been other instances of "cross-over" in apostolates/parishes that offer both forms of the Roman Rite as well, but even in the worst case scenario this does not take place to any appreciable extent here, it won't matter a jot - some of the Faithful will be getting a reform-of-the-reform Mass, and they're rare enough anywhere in the world.

[kingtheoden]

This is precisely why I tithe to the Institute and pray for it (and Canon) daily.

Offering an objectively speaking inferior, spotted sacrifice is not the solution the crisis.  Making the argument that it somehow will lead parishioners to salvation is rather absurd: few mainline Novus Ordos are going to run to see a Novus Ordo in the style of the Tridentine (normative Roman) Rite.  Those who do tend to be unbalanced apologists for John Paul II and have a confused sense of Catholic thought, theology, and spirituality.

A better argument would be to have a good catechism program and a standard modern Mass rather than a hybrid Mass.  Of course, this is not tenable since the Mass is the summit and culmination of our spirituality.  The Novus Ordo, per se, reflects a non-Catholic approach to theology.

I sincerely hold, as a convert going having gone through RCIA, that one with a correct appreciation for the state of things would not set foot in a Novus Ordo Mass except for extremely rare instances (funerals, perhaps First Communions of family on a case by case basis, etc.)  At its core, it is a Protestant worship ceremony that happens to be de jure acceptable in fulfilling the Sunday obligation and (in most cases) valid.

That is not saying very much.

We need to stop this absurd nonsense of 'the Council was misinterpreted' or that 'Vatican II is binding.'  No it wasn't and no it is not.  It was a pastoral council convoked by an, objectively speaking, ignorant and disasterous Pope whose understanding of the Church's relationship with the world ran against the grain of the entire Church's history (and that of the Patriarchs.)  His successor was in my view the worst Pope in history and I will leave it at that.

The solution is not, as another wrote, a middle-of-the-road compromise.  The divergence in approaches is becoming clearer and I firmly believe that the ICKSP will surpass the FSSP as the 'standard' accepted Tridentine community in the next 10 years precisely for this reason.

[tradne4163]

This is precisely why I tithe to the Institute and pray for it (and Canon) daily.

Offering an objectively speaking inferior, spotted sacrifice is not the solution the crisis.  Making the argument that it somehow will lead parishioners to salvation is rather absurd: few mainline Novus Ordos are going to run to see a Novus Ordo in the style of the Tridentine (normative Roman) Rite.  Those who do tend to be unbalanced apologists for John Paul II and have a confused sense of Catholic thought, theology, and spirituality.

A better argument would be to have a good catechism program and a standard modern Mass rather than a hybrid Mass.  Of course, this is not tenable since the Mass is the summit and culmination of our spirituality.  The Novus Ordo, per se, reflects a non-Catholic approach to theology.

I sincerely hold, as a convert going having gone through RCIA, that one with a correct appreciation for the state of things would not set foot in a Novus Ordo Mass except for extremely rare instances (funerals, perhaps First Communions of family on a case by case basis, etc.)  At its core, it is a Protestant worship ceremony that happens to be de jure acceptable in fulfilling the Sunday obligation and (in most cases) valid.

That is not saying very much.

We need to stop this absurd nonsense of 'the Council was misinterpreted' or that 'Vatican II is binding.'  No it wasn't and no it is not.  It was a pastoral council convoked by an, objectively speaking, ignorant and disasterous Pope whose understanding of the Church's relationship with the world ran against the grain of the entire Church's history (and that of the Patriarchs.)  His successor was in my view the worst Pope in history and I will leave it at that.

The solution is not, as another wrote, a middle-of-the-road compromise.  The divergence in approaches is becoming clearer and I firmly believe that the ICKSP will surpass the FSSP as the 'standard' accepted Tridentine community in the next 10 years precisely for this reason.

Wait, does the ICRSS (ICKSP) tell people to avoid the Novus Ordo?

[TraditionalistThomas]

Meh.  I'll trust the judgment of this priest that he's doing the right thing over arm chair theologians who get their ecclesiology and liturgical expertise from screw ball sedevacantist websites. 

But that's just me.   

LOL! 

[INPEFESS]

Actually it seems to me that this Priest is trying to bring back some dignity to a rite that has been destroyed by modernists.

The new liturgy was created by Modernists, not simply destroyed by them. There is no dignity in a liturgy founded upon Modernist principles. A liturgy can't be Catholic yet founded upon Modernist principles, for "do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

Echoing the advice of DrBombay, I'll go with the words of our Lord about what is or is not acceptable over the opinion of this priest.

[City Smurf]

Offering an objectively speaking inferior, spotted sacrifice is not the solution the crisis.

What does your ICKSP priest say when you tell him your views that the Ordinary Form is an inferior and spotted Sacrifice?

[Aragon]

This is precisely why I tithe to the Institute and pray for it (and Canon) daily.

Offering an objectively speaking inferior, spotted sacrifice is not the solution the crisis.  Making the argument that it somehow will lead parishioners to salvation is rather absurd: few mainline Novus Ordos are going to run to see a Novus Ordo in the style of the Tridentine (normative Roman) Rite.  Those who do tend to be unbalanced apologists for John Paul II and have a confused sense of Catholic thought, theology, and spirituality.

A better argument would be to have a good catechism program and a standard modern Mass rather than a hybrid Mass.  Of course, this is not tenable since the Mass is the summit and culmination of our spirituality.  The Novus Ordo, per se, reflects a non-Catholic approach to theology.

I sincerely hold, as a convert going having gone through RCIA, that one with a correct appreciation for the state of things would not set foot in a Novus Ordo Mass except for extremely rare instances (funerals, perhaps First Communions of family on a case by case basis, etc.)  At its core, it is a Protestant worship ceremony that happens to be de jure acceptable in fulfilling the Sunday obligation and (in most cases) valid.

That is not saying very much.

We need to stop this absurd nonsense of 'the Council was misinterpreted' or that 'Vatican II is binding.'  No it wasn't and no it is not.  It was a pastoral council convoked by an, objectively speaking, ignorant and disasterous Pope whose understanding of the Church's relationship with the world ran against the grain of the entire Church's history (and that of the Patriarchs.)  His successor was in my view the worst Pope in history and I will leave it at that.

The solution is not, as another wrote, a middle-of-the-road compromise.  The divergence in approaches is becoming clearer and I firmly believe that the ICKSP will surpass the FSSP as the 'standard' accepted Tridentine community in the next 10 years precisely for this reason.

The ICKSP celebrate the chrism Mass with the bishop of the diocese and, for this reason, are preferred to the FSSP (at least according to an FSSP seminarian from the German seminary I met last year). I also read in an interview with Fr. Watch that if we see a discrepancy between Vatican II and Tradition we just have to study more. They're hardly the bulwark of "traditionalism" you're making them out to be.

[Adam Wayne]

It's a shame all you who fight this tooth and nail from the safety of your keyboards don't offer any help in the real world. That would include being staunch defenders of Truth in all realms of Altar and Throne.

But, believe it or not, you've got some enemies outside the Church as well. And they are trying to destroy Her one brick at a time.

Oh well, my ride on the train has ended too soon. See ya'll later.

[DMA]

excuse me?

You should consider where you stand, the middle isn't a good place to be.

Actually it seems to me that this Priest is trying to bring back some dignity to a rite that has been destroyed by modernists. If anything this will most likely challenge the NO priests because I am sure their parishioners who have never seen something like this will go back and ask why their Mass can not be done that way. If anything I would expect others to be attracted to the EF.