Baronius' Breviary: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly - Your Thoughts & Errata

[Paul]

Your second complaint is perhaps reasonable. However, these books are nearly the size of bricks, can you seriously expect the collect to be on every page. Give me a break.

Not every page, but it should be there at least three times, if there are propers: after I Vespers (where it still exists), after Lauds, and after II Vespers. If it's on the facing page, that's fine, but otherwise, there's too much flipping.

[Adam Wayne]

Your second complaint is perhaps reasonable. However, these books are nearly the size of bricks, can you seriously expect the collect to be on every page. Give me a break.

Not every page, but it should be there at least three times, if there are propers: after I Vespers (where it still exists), after Lauds, and after II Vespers. If it's on the facing page, that's fine, but otherwise, there's too much flipping.

Yes. That is what I meant. On every page where I need it.

deus lo vutl, I have already provided comments on how they could have made these books a lot smaller. In other posts.

[Adam Wayne]

deus lo vutl, I have already provided comments on how they could have made these books a lot smaller. In other posts.

For instance, I'll give another one. They have already made extensive changes to the Collegeville Breviary. So what would have stopped them from issuing the new one in four volumes?

As I've said before, they don't need rubrics in all volumes. In fact, they need them in none. Could have been issued as a separate book.

Also, I don't need all responses for all seasons in the Psalter or in the Ordinary. Do you?

Keeping in mind that they already took out 2 readings on Saints. And for most days you only have 3 lessons vs 9.

My Benziger Brothers sets manage to do it in about 800 pages in each volume and sometimes I have to hunt for versicles and responses on a facing page, but the Collect is always where I need it. This is true of both the Latin and English versions. Also handy is quite often they will give me the first few words of the Absolution and the Blessing on the page and I have committed them all to memory. They even cue you for the Pater. Can't tell you how many times I've missed the Pater after praying 9 Psalms in this Baronius Set. 1) I'm not used to praying 9 Psalms in a row, as it doe not happen often in DA, and even then they cue you for the Pater and the Absolution At the Nocturn.

All that busy-ness in the Ordinary and Psalter does not help. 

[aquinas138]

Adam Wayne, though I don't personally have the Baronius to look at, I have to say that I disagree with some of your complaints.

1) Regarding the rubrics, I absolutely believe they should be in each volume - I couldn't disagree with you more.  In fact, that is one of my biggest practical complaints about the LOTH - why should I need to hunt down the Advent volume to consult the rubrics?  A separate volume doesn't help that at all.  But besides my own preferences, the Sacred Congregation of Rites, in a document dated July 26, 1960, which gives the regulations for publishing liturgical books in accordance with the new rubrics, directed that the rubrics along with the calendar have to be published in each volume; this is just making explicit what was ordered by John XXIII in Rubricarum Instructum no. 5.  The other prefatory material, namely, all that precedes the calendar, may be published only in the first volume, but the same letter explicitly forbids this material being published in a separate volume.

2) I think having seasonal options in the Psalter is a good choice.  Many people complain about page-flipping; having these in the Psalter cuts down on that.  The same letter I mentioned above directed that publishers were to reproduce the Ordinary, which the SCR would send to the publishers, exactly and "without any change or abridgment."  They are explicitly given permission to reproduce portions of it in the Psalter and the Proper for the convenience of the user.

3) Regarding a possible 4 volumes, that might have put the price range beyond what Baronius thinks people would be willing to pay.

4) As for the collect, I agree that the best option is what Paul mentioned, but it should at least be at I Vespers, if this exists, and at Lauds.  It should also be printed at (II) Vespers if this is on a different page from Lauds, but otherwise could be omitted.  The Nova et Vetera edition does an excellent job of placing and judiciously repeating the various elements.  I have occasionally used the Anglican Breviary extensively, so I am very used to having basically nothing repeated, so a couple of page flips is not a big deal for me personally.

[Adam Wayne]

Interesting aquinas. I did not know the rubrics needed to be printed in each volume by decree. But, that is not even the issue. They do not comprise that many pages.

You are probably correct that the price point was a concern. But it would not have been a concern for me. It was a bargain at $350. What would be another $100 or even $150 for something I plan to use for the rest of my life and hopefully pass down to someone who will use it?

And I agree with Paul as well on the Collect. Obviously, I do not want it printed on every page.

I was just adding a simple comment in a thread titled the good, bad, and ugly. deus suggested the book was already a brick.

I was merely offering suggestions. Not complaints. They did what they did. I'll get used to it. I thank them for it as it is a darn shame that this hasn't been easily purchased for nearly 50 years.

I just prayed Matins for Feast of St. James and St. Philip. Looking at the Common, I thought I was going to have to filp for the Antiphon from the Common in Paschaltide to the Common of Apostles. Turns out the Antiphons for Paschaltide were in the Common itself. And that's a good thing, no complaints. However, this duplicity of having them in the Common of Paschaltide is redundant IMHO. I think they even had the V and R in the Common of Paschaltide, which was also in the Common.  All I needed in the Common in Paschaltide for, Matins at least, was the Hymn and the Invivatory. Why on earth would I want to flip back when it's right next to the Psalms I am praying? This adds pages. If this in any indication, after only using it for a week, I see many places it could have been slimmed down.

But, I realize the more I describe things, it is starting to sound like I am complaining. So I will just stop for now. 

[Paul]

I just prayed Matins for Feast of St. James and St. Philip. Looking at the Common, I thought I was going to have to filp for the Antiphon from the Common in Paschaltide to the Common of Apostles. Turns out the Antiphons for Paschaltide were in the Common itself. And that's a good thing, no complaints. However, this duplicity of having them in the Common of Paschaltide is redundant IMHO. I think they even had the V and R in the Common of Paschaltide, which was also in the Common.  All I needed in the Common in Paschaltide for, Matins at least, was the Hymn and the Invivatory. Why on earth would I want to flip back when it's right next to the Psalms I am praying? This adds pages. If this in any indication, after only using it for a week, I see many places it could have been slimmed down.

They've always been printed both places, even in older editions. The Common for Eastertide needs to specify the proper parts; they're then reprinted in the Common outside Eastertide for convenience. Remember, too, that the 1960 Breviary is meant to be two volumes, Latin-only, and it's not up to the publisher to edit it much.

When you said the seasonal Antiphons are in the Psalter, are they in all three volumes? That seems a bit odd, although I do prefer that the Advent, Lent, and Passiontide Antiphons be in the appropriate volumes.

[deus_lo_vult]

I will agree they did not need to include advent content in my lent-july volume. That is really very silly. Some of there decisions in this regard are grievous oversights. I have my Nova et Vetera Breviary which does a much better job, and it is in 2 relatively thin volumes

[Adam Wayne]

Paul, I must be very brief and will try to answer your more specific questions as I am able to research and time allows. You do explain much in that it was meant to be in two volumes in Latin for 1960.

As you know, in the Verna Volume of DA, The Common of Apostles Out of Paschaltide amounts to about 1 page of printed matter. The rest is the Common of Apostles In Paschaltide. Of course they list the Antiphons for Out of Paschaltide in it as St. Mathias  falls Out of Paschaltide.

But it is all right there, and for all intents and purposes, a Common of Apostles Outside of Paschaltide does not exist in Verna or Spring Volumes.

It is a minor inconveience based on what I am currently used to.

[Paul]

I will agree they did not need to include advent content in my lent-july volume. That is really very silly. Some of there decisions in this regard are grievous oversights. I have my Nova et Vetera Breviary which does a much better job, and it is in 2 relatively thin volumes

Saying it's a Lent-July volume explains a lot. As I mentioned, the decree establishing the 1960 Breviary says that it can be published in either one or two volumes. With the reduction of most feasts to three Lessons, the former four volumes are no longer needed. I'm sure Baronius got some kind of approval for a bilingual version, but they may not have received approval to adapt the text to fit a three-volume format  The first volume is Advent until Trinity Sunday, the second is Trinity Sunday until Advent, so the Lent and Eastertide sections would come from the first volume, which also includes Advent. I agree it's a bit silly, but with these reprints being a fairly new thing (especially when it comes to the time it takes the Church to approve things), they may not have received permission to alter the layout.

[Paul]

As you know, in the Verna Volume of DA, The Common of Apostles Out of Paschaltide amounts to about 1 page of printed matter. The rest is the Common of Apostles In Paschaltide. Of course they list the Antiphons for Out of Paschaltide in it as St. Mathias  falls Out of Paschaltide.

But it is all right there, and for all intents and purposes, a Common of Apostles Outside of Paschaltide does not exist in Verna or Spring Volumes.

It does in mine. It has the full Common of Apostles outside Eastertide, with the Eastertide Antiphons and Matins Responds added, followed by the Common of Apostles in Eastertide, which does not reprint the Psalms (or the Lessons, where they're identical to those used outside Eastertide).

Maybe you just have a different edition than I do. My newer edition (which reprints lots of stuff, and which I prefer, although it's largely unusable since it has the new Psalter) has both Commons printed in full, with all the Psalms at Vespers and Matins in and out of Eastertide.