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Fish Eaters Traditional Catholic Forum > Church > Theology and Philosophy > Can someone unknowingly become a martyr?
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Author Topic: Can someone unknowingly become a martyr?  (Read 572 times)
per_passionem_eius
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Fortitudo et laetitia
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 01:13:PM »
I'm just guessing, but it would make sense to me that the Church makes St. Stephen the protomartyr because she wants to establish him as a role model.
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Ray M Facere
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Making a Case
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 01:15:PM »
Quote
Also St. Stephen is still called "proto-martyr," but he wouldn't be if the Holy Innocents were first.

As far as I know, the prefix "proto," even though it comes from a superlative form in Greek, does not imply an absolute first, simply "a first" -- fairly sure it is this way in English, Latin and Greek, but maybe some grammarian or etymologist could help us out. Kind of like: "NewYorkCatholic is a most holy man" -- obviously implying a property, but not a direct comparison, per se.
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newyorkcatholic
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 02:25:PM »
Quote from: Ray M Facere
"NewYorkCatholic is a most holy man"

I was following you until this ridiculous hypothetical, now I'm lost  Grin.
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One human thought alone is worth more than the entire world, hence God alone is worthy of it. -- St. John of the Cross
Doce Me
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 03:35:PM »
Quote from: newyorkcatholic
Quote from: Ray M Facere
"NewYorkCatholic is a most holy man"

I was following you until this ridiculous hypothetical, now I'm lost  Grin.

Look how humble he is!  Smile

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St. Thomas Becket is well known to be a martyr.  The move "Becket" has no real authority but might be the first place some people learn about Becket doing his duty and knowingly accepting his death.  I think that the movie is historical at least in that.

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If God knows that a Catholic in a bombed church WOULD have willingly died for his faith, I think that it is acceptable to speculate (although not insist) that God might count that Catholic as a martyr.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 03:37:PM by Doce Me » Logged
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How can we live in harmony? First we need to know we are all madly in love with the same God. - St. Thomas Aquinas (from lists of quotes)
Mithrandylan
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Divínum auxílium ✝ maneat semper nobíscum.
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 07:08:PM »
You can't accidentally be a martyr.  Being a martyr means choosing death for Christ when one could alternatively chose life (without Him).  Becket doesn't work as an analogy because he still died for Christ.  If some C and E Catholic was hanging around in the back pew on his smart phone trying to stay awake during the sermon and a bomb falls on the CHurch, his chances aren't too good.
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Vetus Ordo
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 07:10:PM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan
If some C and E Catholic was hanging around in the back pew on his smart phone trying to stay awake during the sermon and a bomb falls on the CHurch, his chances aren't too good.

It'll be God's way of saying: "Time's up!"
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"THE LORD is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the protector of my life: of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 26:1)

"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." — Clement, bishop of Rome

"I love truth," says he, "and not sects. I am sometimes a peripatetic, a stoic, or an academician, and often none of them; but—always a Christian. To philosophise is to love wisdom; and the true wisdom is Jesus Christ. Let us read the historians, the poets, and the philosophers; but let us have in our hearts the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which alone is perfect wisdom and perfect happiness." — Petrarch
UnamSanctam
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WWW
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2012, 07:47:PM »
"It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."
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Mithrandylan
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Divínum auxílium ✝ maneat semper nobíscum.
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2012, 11:27:PM »
Quote from: Vetus Ordo
Quote from: Mithrandylan
If some C and E Catholic was hanging around in the back pew on his smart phone trying to stay awake during the sermon and a bomb falls on the CHurch, his chances aren't too good.

It'll be God's way of saying: "Time's up!"

lol, indeed.
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