A Couple of Questions

[miner_luke]

Hi I am new and have a couple of questions

I am a new Catholic (this Easter!) coming from a non-denominational Christian background.  I am very interested in learning more about traditional Catholicism and the Latin Mass.
I'm trying to get a handle on the Vatican II council, it seems to have been a very polarizing event for Catholics to put it mildly. A couple of questions:

1. After Vatican II liturgical reform, did the eastern rite Catholics reform their liturgies as well, vernacular etc. or was it just the latin rite?

2. I have read about Archbishop Lefevbre (sp?) and the SSPX, but wasn't there any other bishops, that on seeing the NO mass, that protested as well.  Did all the other bishops go along with the NO mass changes?
I would have expected many more, maybe a large minority at least to protest such massive changes to the liturgy.

I have found and read the book, 'The Rhine Flows into the Tiber' it was helpful but I think I will have to read it again after I get a bit more familiar with the Vatican, my head was positively swimming with all the names of Cardinals, Bishops, different Congregations etc.

3. Possible dumb question, is the adoration of the Blessed Sacrament a fairly new thing or is it part of tradition? 

Thanks for your help

Luke

[Vetus Ordo]

1. The huge reforms were made to the Latin rite of the Church (liturgy and sacraments). The eastern rites came to adopt some of these reforms, or rather the spirit of these reforms, but not to the extent of the Latin rite.

2. Abp. Lefebvre became the most vocal and popular adversary of Vatican II. There were other bishops who opposed the changes, especially during the Council itself, but as time went by resistance waned and the French archbishop became more and more alone and ostracised in his struggle. Suffice it to say that during the episcopal ordinations in Ecône (1988), only Bp. Castro Mayer of the small diocese of Campos, Brazil, attended the cerimony and co-consecrated the new bishops with Lefebvre.

3. It has been a part of the Western tradition of the Church since the High Middle Ages.

[cath4ever]

Luke,

Welcome to the Catholic Church! We are pleased to have you.

1. I don't know much about the Eastern Rites so somebody else will have to answer that question.

2. In regards to other Bishops who opposed the Novus Ordo, it depends on what you mean when you say the "Novus Ordo". To the best of my knowledge the only two prelates to ever go on record as opposing the Novus Ordo in PRINCIPLE were His Eminence Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani, the Prefect-emeritus of the Holy Office, and His Eminence Antonio Cardinal Bacci, who worked in another Curial office at that time. They were the only two signers of the famous Ottaviani Intervention, which is still printed in book form and is a book I would recommend to you since it treats directly of the official Latin text of the revised rite and why even that represents a "striking departure from the theology of the Mass as formulated by the Council of Trent".

With that said, there were many other Bishops who opposed certain reforms, and many who opposed certain prevalent abuses that were not directly mandated by the Conciliar documents, but which were certainly in the "Spirit of Vatican II".

I'm not sure if this is accurate, but Vatican II's Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy only received 4 negative votes: Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani, Antonio Cardinal Bacci, Archbishop Geraldo de Proenca Sigaud, and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer. (If the names are not correct, please correct me).

For example, it is well known that His Eminence James Francis Cardinal McIntyre, Metropolitan Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles, opposed most reform to the rite of Mass and especially the abandonment of Latin. He was also quite opposed to the modern concept of ecumenism. While he unfortunately did implement Vatican II and never directly opposed the Council or the official reforms themselves, during his reign the Archdiocese of Los Angeles implemented the reforms very slowly, with ample catechisis of the faithful, and only those reforms directly ordered.

There were other "Conservative" Cardinals and other prelates who opposed certain reforms/abuses, but have varying degrees of opposition; had they been Pope they probably would have never called a Council and certainly wouldn't have let the Council go the path it did. Some of these prelates are: Ernesto Cardinal Ruffini (Palermo), Giuseppe Cardinal Siri (Genoa), Manuel Cardinal Cerejeira (Lisbon), Francis Cardinal Spellman (New York), William Cardinal Godfrey (Westminster), Giuseppe Cardinal Pizzardo (Roman Curia), Gaetano Cardinal Cicognani (Roman Curia), Archbishop John Krol (Philadelphia).

Some of the Bishops Conferences in general had a more conservative attitude during and immediately after the Council, such as those of Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland, and (I believe) Mexico. Some of the more controversial reforms, such as altar girls and Communion in the Hand, were either never allowed by these conferences or were only allowed after a long time. To this day some of these countries would celebrate the Novus Ordo in a more traditional and reverent way, but it would still fall under all of the criticisms of the Ottaviani Intervention.

Once again, welcome to the Catholic Church. Keep the Faith!

[Phillipus Iacobus]

Welcome

[mikemac]

I think it should be noted that Vatican II was opened on October 11, 1962 and closed on December 8, 1965.  But the NO Mass was not promulgated until 1969.  Although Vatican II seemed to have a modernist flavour I don't think the NO Mass was an intention of the Council.  I may be corrected on this.

[Phillipus Iacobus]

I think it should be noted that Vatican II was opened on October 11, 1962 and closed on December 8, 1965.  But the NO Mass was not promulgated until 1969.  Although Vatican II seemed to have a modernist flavour I don't think the NO Mass was an intention of the Council.  I may be corrected on this.

However, the gradual transition to the NO began in 1964 or so. Some would even say it began in the 1950s.

[mikemac]

Right.  But am I wrong to think that I remember reading that the Council wanted to keep the Liturgy unchanged and even keep the Gregorian Chant?

[cath4ever]

Right.  But am I wrong to think that I remember reading that the Council wanted to keep the Liturgy unchanged and even keep the Gregorian Chant?

"The rite of the Mass is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as also the connection between them, may be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful may be more easily achieved.

For this purpose the rites are to be simplified, due care being taken to preserve their substance; elements which, with the passage of time, came to be duplicated, or were added with but little advantage, are now to be discarded; other elements which have suffered injury through accidents of history are now to be restored to the vigor which they had in the days of the holy Fathers, as may seem useful or necessary."

Sacrosanctum Concilium, Chapter 2, #50

[mikemac]

Thanks cath4ever.  I guess that straightens that out.

[MRose]

Congratulations, miner luke. I am a relatively new convert too (last year,however). I too came from non-denominational Protestantism.

There are lots of questions to ask and things to learn about the Church and her Traditions, as well as pertaining to the current state of affairs. Suffice it to say, the current state of affairs I think is not so good. But nonetheless, thanks be to God that you and I found the True Church, the Bride of Christ!

How one learns more about the Church and Catholic Tradition depends from person to person. For some, it starts simply by going to the TLM and being inspired but its beauty and sublimity. For some it is reading different things. For some, conversations with priests or others. For most,  based upon the little experience I have, it is a combination of several.

My two pieces of advice: find and go to the Traditional Mass, and richly embrace Our Blessed Lady. I know many ex-Protestants (myself included) had to "get over" the qualms about Our Lady when converting, but do not just "get over" the dogmas. Embrace your Heavenly Mother and she will transport you spotless to the Throne of Grace, and embrace you as her own.

I highly recommend reading True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin by St. Louis de Montfort.

May Our Lord, through His Blessed Mother, richly bless you!