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Author Topic: Letter from 3 Bishops to Bishop Fellay has been leaked  (Read 3606 times)
Doce Me
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Posts: 1,893



« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2012, 11:34:PM »

Get ready, folks

Will we really know the "final" decision by the end of May?  (It won't really be final for the SSPX or the Church)
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OldMan
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Posts: 982



« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 07:11:AM »

I do not think either of these letters is authentic.  God have mercy on the sick person who wrote these and "leaked" them.

Ah, yes, denial!
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"It would be better to teach demons than to try to convince heretics." –St. Ephraem the Syrian, Doctor of the Church
Scriptorium
Aimed to Please
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In medio stat virtus


« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 08:09:AM »

The original scanned letter back to the three bishops has their signatures. And I know that it is internal to the SSPX because the leaker is from the SSPX. Don't ask me who it is, because I won't tell, but you can be sure these are authentic.

As for the arguments, I am squarely with the arguments Fellay represents IF Rome is allowing complete freedom of action for the SSPX. That's a big if.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 08:13:AM by Scriptorium » Logged

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Shall fall in it, shall fall in it.
Whosoever diggeth a pit shall bury in it,
Shall bury in it.

If you are the big tree,
We are the small axe
Sharpened to cut you down,
Ready to cut you down.

- Bob Marley, Small Axe
Old Salt
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Sancta Dei Genitrix Ora Pro Nobis.


« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 08:31:AM »

How do we know these letters are authentic, from the bishops?

What source are they from?
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Phillipus Iacobus
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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2012, 08:42:AM »

How do we know these letters are authentic, from the bishops?

What source are they from?

A U.K. SSPXer leaked them. He will not reveal his source, but says it is not Bishop Williamson.
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Joseph11
Member

Posts: 995



« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 09:16:AM »

I do not think either of these letters is authentic.  God have mercy on the sick person who wrote these and "leaked" them.

Ah, yes, denial!

Ah yes...  I withdraw my doubt.  I believe they are authentic.  I can admit when I'm wrong, sir. Mad

But the man who leaked these will rue the day in Purgatory... or before.
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Tim
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« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 09:20:AM »

I believe Bishop Fellay is not a liar, nor lacking good will. If Pope Benedict XVI offers jurisdiction without compromise he'll take it. What is left are those that love something besides the Church, and all of the leaks and gossip is there for the purpose of division, only. If the SSPX accepts as an experiment of tradition, they'll help to stop the modernism, if not they run the risk of becoming like the Old Roman Catholics with valid priests, and sacraments but completely off the mark.

tim
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Mafalda
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Posts: 560



« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 09:33:AM »

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/05/notice-leaks-leakers-and-standing-ones.html

Notice: leaks, leakers, and standing one's ground

[May 9, 11 PM GMT] On July 5, 2007, we posted a relevant notice here in Rorate: at the time, the enemies of the motu proprio were still attempting a late move of shock and awe, and broke the embargo. We stood firm against it, such methods have no place where Catholicism is involved.

One can almost always find the right side in a dispute by seeing who acts in good faith, and the wrong side by who acts in bad faith. That has usually been a matter that has led to the despair of conservative forces in politics: because those who are truly conservative are unwilling to do everything to win, and because their revolutionary adversaries accept the use of any weapons, and are willing to use them, the struggle is most unequal.

That is to say that it is quite surprising when, in a disagreement between Traditional-minded Catholics, one side maintains a serene spirit, while the other makes use of... revolutionary methods. Such was the case today, as at least one person with access to internal letters of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) released two of them, dated from about one month ago, in unsanitary and hellish places which a Catholic should never be called to visit: one, sent by one bishop including the apparent agreement of other two, uninterested in what has usually been called a "practical agreement"; the other, sent in response by the General Council of the SSPX one week later, explaining the reasons for pursuing the current course.

Five years ago, we refused as a matter of principle to publish a leak, and we were glad at the time that many good online friends did the same. We refuse today based on the same principle to publish leaks of letters sent and received in confidence - it is a repulsive kind of conduct that simply has no place in civilized affairs, much less in those between Christians.

We wish to state only the following: first, it is clear that the General Council of Society and the Holy Father are being moved in all this by faith in Divine Providence alone. The careful prudence, the charity of all the process, the strong inspiration in Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition are very endearing - and, if the leakers wanted to sow fear and division, what transpires from the exchange is serene steadiness from those who are in charge of the affair.

Second, the current situation is not the same as it was one month ago. We hope those acting in revolutionary fashion do not insist: faith in God and good faith were what always moved Archbishop Lefebvre; faith in God and good faith, not leaks, are the matter of which heroes and saints are made.

_______________________________________

So, who leaked the letters? We know, by the date of creation (April 19) of the PDF file of the letter sent by Bp. Fellay on April 14, that it was someone who had access to the physical letter on the days leading up to April 19. Therefore, someone had this letter since that date but, instead of leaking it then, leaked it only three weeks later - the delay marks this as an obviously desperate move in response to a changed set of circumstances.

Who was responsible for it? Also someone who did not move carefully in deleting simple traces. This person registered in a forum we never link to, but that we will mention here for documentation purposes: CathInfo. He used the name "FSPX" and leaked from Britain the texts of the two letters (the PDF file of the first, created on April 5, two days before it was sent - at that time, then, just a draft; the PDF file of the image of the second one), as well as a DOC file with an English translation of the first letter.

A friend sent us this link almost immediately after the documents were posted, and one of Rorate's contributors immediately downloaded all of them for future reference.

Then, some hours later, something curious happened: some poster on the fourth page of that same CathInfo forum thread said, "Father, you left traces", or words to that effect; afterwards, the moderator said, "how would you know?". Then this entire discussion disappeared - at this moment, we knew that there was something with the DOC file.

A new download of the DOC file revealed a slightly modified document: its Document Properties were empty (the only other difference is that the little dash, between "Letter of the Three Bishops" and "English Translation" in the filename was moved to the middle). The original file contains "Fr. X" (the actual surname of a priest in the UK District, which we will leave unmentioned at this moment) as author in the Document Properties, and "Monsieur le Supérieur Général," as title in the Document Properties (a clear sign that it was automatically created by the word processor, by using the registered owner of the software as author and the first words as title - which makes sense, since he used the French original to make his translation).

In sum: Letter of the Three Bishops- English Translation.doc Author: "Fr. X" (54k)
 Letter of the Three Bishops - English Translation.doc Author: [Empty] (29k)

We know then that the translation was created in a word processing software owned by "Fr. X", that it came from someone who had access to it, and also that it was sent from the United Kingdom. Since he chose to make the private documents public, we are quite sure that whoever composed the public translation document ("Fr. X" or someone who used "Fr. X"'s computer) does not mind having this information mentioned here.

______________________________________

May 10 Note: we did not plan to mention these leaks of private internal letters. We did not think any serious source would publish them. We have had our hand forced to mention these leaks because French blog Riposte Catholique could not resist posting it almost 20 hours later as if it were a scoop: audience numbers are not that important, Messieurs... When we are authorized to publish them, or one of them, or when circumstances seem to indicate that such an authorization exists at least implicitly, we will. Otherwise, you will not find this kind of material here - elsewhere, but not here: that was not the way we worked in 2007, and it is not the way we work in 2012.
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FE member since 2004.
Meg
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Posts: 909


Unapologetic Papolator


« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 10:01:AM »

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/05/notice-leaks-leakers-and-standing-ones.html

Notice: leaks, leakers, and standing one's ground

[May 9, 11 PM GMT] On July 5, 2007, we posted a relevant notice here in Rorate: at the time, the enemies of the motu proprio were still attempting a late move of shock and awe, and broke the embargo. We stood firm against it, such methods have no place where Catholicism is involved.

One can almost always find the right side in a dispute by seeing who acts in good faith, and the wrong side by who acts in bad faith. That has usually been a matter that has led to the despair of conservative forces in politics: because those who are truly conservative are unwilling to do everything to win, and because their revolutionary adversaries accept the use of any weapons, and are willing to use them, the struggle is most unequal.

That is to say that it is quite surprising when, in a disagreement between Traditional-minded Catholics, one side maintains a serene spirit, while the other makes use of... revolutionary methods. Such was the case today, as at least one person with access to internal letters of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) released two of them, dated from about one month ago, in unsanitary and hellish places which a Catholic should never be called to visit: one, sent by one bishop including the apparent agreement of other two, uninterested in what has usually been called a "practical agreement"; the other, sent in response by the General Council of the SSPX one week later, explaining the reasons for pursuing the current course.

Five years ago, we refused as a matter of principle to publish a leak, and we were glad at the time that many good online friends did the same. We refuse today based on the same principle to publish leaks of letters sent and received in confidence - it is a repulsive kind of conduct that simply has no place in civilized affairs, much less in those between Christians.

We wish to state only the following: first, it is clear that the General Council of Society and the Holy Father are being moved in all this by faith in Divine Providence alone. The careful prudence, the charity of all the process, the strong inspiration in Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition are very endearing - and, if the leakers wanted to sow fear and division, what transpires from the exchange is serene steadiness from those who are in charge of the affair.

Second, the current situation is not the same as it was one month ago. We hope those acting in revolutionary fashion do not insist: faith in God and good faith were what always moved Archbishop Lefebvre; faith in God and good faith, not leaks, are the matter of which heroes and saints are made.

_______________________________________

So, who leaked the letters? We know, by the date of creation (April 19) of the PDF file of the letter sent by Bp. Fellay on April 14, that it was someone who had access to the physical letter on the days leading up to April 19. Therefore, someone had this letter since that date but, instead of leaking it then, leaked it only three weeks later - the delay marks this as an obviously desperate move in response to a changed set of circumstances.

Who was responsible for it? Also someone who did not move carefully in deleting simple traces. This person registered in a forum we never link to, but that we will mention here for documentation purposes: CathInfo. He used the name "FSPX" and leaked from Britain the texts of the two letters (the PDF file of the first, created on April 5, two days before it was sent - at that time, then, just a draft; the PDF file of the image of the second one), as well as a DOC file with an English translation of the first letter.

A friend sent us this link almost immediately after the documents were posted, and one of Rorate's contributors immediately downloaded all of them for future reference.

Then, some hours later, something curious happened: some poster on the fourth page of that same CathInfo forum thread said, "Father, you left traces", or words to that effect; afterwards, the moderator said, "how would you know?". Then this entire discussion disappeared - at this moment, we knew that there was something with the DOC file.

A new download of the DOC file revealed a slightly modified document: its Document Properties were empty (the only other difference is that the little dash, between "Letter of the Three Bishops" and "English Translation" in the filename was moved to the middle). The original file contains "Fr. X" (the actual surname of a priest in the UK District, which we will leave unmentioned at this moment) as author in the Document Properties, and "Monsieur le Supérieur Général," as title in the Document Properties (a clear sign that it was automatically created by the word processor, by using the registered owner of the software as author and the first words as title - which makes sense, since he used the French original to make his translation).

In sum: Letter of the Three Bishops- English Translation.doc Author: "Fr. X" (54k)
 Letter of the Three Bishops - English Translation.doc Author: [Empty] (29k)

We know then that the translation was created in a word processing software owned by "Fr. X", that it came from someone who had access to it, and also that it was sent from the United Kingdom. Since he chose to make the private documents public, we are quite sure that whoever composed the public translation document ("Fr. X" or someone who used "Fr. X"'s computer) does not mind having this information mentioned here.

______________________________________

May 10 Note: we did not plan to mention these leaks of private internal letters. We did not think any serious source would publish them. We have had our hand forced to mention these leaks because French blog Riposte Catholique could not resist posting it almost 20 hours later as if it were a scoop: audience numbers are not that important, Messieurs... When we are authorized to publish them, or one of them, or when circumstances seem to indicate that such an authorization exists at least implicitly, we will. Otherwise, you will not find this kind of material here - elsewhere, but not here: that was not the way we worked in 2007, and it is not the way we work in 2012.


Gee....I wonder who this "Fr. X" could be?  Mr. Winky
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"And by experience we see that many persons who recite a great number of vocal prayers, the Office and the Rosary, fall into sin, and continue to live in sin. But he who attends to mental prayer scarcely ever falls into sin, and should he have the misfortune of ever falling into it, he will hardly continue to live in so miserable a state; he will either give up mental prayer, or renounce sin. Meditation and sin cannot stand together. However abandoned a soul may be, if she perseveres in meditation, God will bring her to salvation."

~ St. Alphonsus Ligouri
Dignities and Duties of the Priest (Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, 1927). P. 292
Joseph11
Member

Posts: 995



« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2012, 10:12:AM »

No doubt someone around whom it is possible to become a saint because one must endure him.
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