SSPX: Geopolitical Consequences

[James02]

Perhaps the Pope realizes he's been neutered.   So the SSPX will be his sword.  We'll see the first time the SSPX stirs the pot after the regularization.

[ggreg]

Perhaps the Pope realizes he's been neutered.   So the SSPX will be his sword.  We'll see the first time the SSPX stirs the pot after the regularization.

What are you talking about neutered?  He's one of the most powerful men in the world.  He only has to open his mouth and the media will repeat what he says with some bias sure, but provided he can remember how to speak in plain speak and not double meaning "Vaticaneese" of that special dialect of Ambiguish Vaticaneese, then he would be understood.

If the Pope was really determined to do the right thing, he could get the message out to the world; even without the supernatural help of the Holy Spirit.

It's really simple to say.  "For too long the Church has ignored the Message of Our Lady of Fatima".  "I call and command ALL bishops in the world to join me in the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Those who refuse to join me, incur automatic excommuication".

Let the chips fall where they may.

Or, just send a letter to the four Bishops of the SSPX telling them to turn up in Rome on Easter Sunday with their best vestments and take a taxi to St. Peters for 11:45.  A Swiss guard will meet them at the side door with a handwritten note telling anyone who tries to stop them that they are excommunicated.  Get to the novus ordo table, turn everything around and shout up to the choirmaster.  "Tridentine rite today, my child".  I am prety sure those four SSPX Bishops could remind the Pope of the Order of Mass and help him out if he forget anything.  I am pretty sure they'd go along with any deal B16 suggested after that.

In short he can do what he likes.  At the start of his Pontificate he said "protect me from the Wolves".  Well to need protection you need to actually go out and face the wolves.

[Phillipus Iacobus]

But ggreg but ggreg...you're being completely unrealistic. Things don't work like that anymore (etc. ad absurdum)

[JMartyr]

But ggreg but ggreg...you're being completely unrealistic. Things don't work like that anymore (etc. ad absurdum)

Yes, we must dialogue.

[James02]

What are you talking about neutered?

Yeah I can't assume that.  Things are very strange.  Not that I am surprised as it is the Great Apostacy.  I see three possibilities:

1.  Pope Benedict is the same Modernist as he was when he was Father Ratzinger at Vatican II.  I don't believe that for various reasons.

2.  Pope Benedict admits to himself that the past modernism was a failure, but can't accept that Vat. II isn't a dogmatic, infallible Council.  So he abandons all reason and presumes on the Holy Ghost.  He is therefore in the same mindset of Charismatics, though I don't consider him a Charismatic.  I actually witnessed this phenomenon.  It is easier to describe the symptoms then explain it.  I was down in Ave Maria town.  The latest screw up was ongoing.  It might have been when they named a building after the pro-choice dude, or they changed their Christmas sign to "Happy Holidays", or something like that.  Anyhow, I'm at this pub, either drinking coffee or beer, and the townies are all talking about it.  I'm hearing "well, whatever is happening, we can be sure the Holy Spirit has a reason, etc...etc..." and I'm thinking "Children of the Corn" and looking for the exit before they chop me up into little bits or something.  It's a weird cult kind of mentality.  So I think Pope Benedict could have this same weird cult mentality over Vatican II.

3.  Or, there is blackmail.  This would be the "neuter" case.  There certainly are any number of opportunities to blackmail the whole Vatican.

So yeah, "neuter" might not be it.  Yes, I agree, the Pope can do a lot.  But he doesn't.  So if it is "3", then he just lets the SSPX go run amok and raise Cain.  Kind of projecting.  If it is "2", then he believes the Holy Ghost will use the SSPX as the "anti-thesis" to come up with the new "synthesis".  I'm fine with that, because if the SSPX is now taken seriously, then all you need is a leader, and the tsunami won't be stopped.  You won't be able to put the genie back in the bottle.  Once people start hearing the truth, it will be all over.  The contradiction collapses on itself.  Remember, 99.9% of people know nothing about the SSPX.

[ggreg]

Here is what I think James.

I think Pope Benedict is a former modernist with a mushy Hegelian mind.  Over the years he's see the new springtime and realised that on a practical level there have been abuses.  I think he is genuinely hurt and angry by the paedophile scandal for example and wishes the Church could have handled that with more discretion (silence and legal settlements).  I believe he feels for the victims but he also knows it has been going on for decades and decades and I am sure he knew of cover ups and back room deals, bribes and other "settlements" 40 years ago.

But the sexual abuses, liturgical, doctrinal and moral don't really bother him that much because why would they?.  He essentially believes in universal salvation, so none of these abuses and sins really matter.  We can hope all mean are save because of God's great mercy.

I think he is perfectly happy with the New Mass.

Does the badly behaved child of a weak parents worry themselves about their bad behaviour?  No, they don't, because they know their weak parents will forgive them with no real consequences.  Clearly if you don't wish to evangelise people it is either because you don't care that they will burn in hell, or because you don't think that many, or any, will.

I don't think he really believes in dogmatic infallible Councils.  Full stop.  How can you believe in infallible anything and mutable truth?  Councils to him are merely attempts to reach the truth.  Like the Holy Ghost is organising a 2000+ year treasure hunt.

So basically I think he is a moderate modernist or a genuinely liberal LIBERAL

[Vetus Ordo]

Greg nailed it, as usual.

[ggreg]

Just callin it like I see it.

Weighing all the evidence up - over the course of his priesthood, writings, head of the CDF and 7 year Papacy that is how it looks to me.

I don't even comprehend the excitement that he is a closet Trad just waiting to spring his 7 year sneaky plan to put the ship in reverse and catch the modernists off-guard.

That is really delusional. But "Hope dies last", as they say in Russia.

Moreover B16 is going to be dead (or retire) before long I would suspect. He's 85. Then we can see what happens with Peter the Roman.

As for the "Glory of the Olive"....who knows?

[James02]

I tend to agree, but think Benedict has changed for the better.  He was involved in some of the JPII Martyr, the Great shenanigans where he got "The Great" to tone it down.  So he's an improvement over JPII.  He'll still go down in history as a bad Pope, but he is better than JPII.  Things have improved.  They suck, but they are better.

So the SSPX gets an "official" platform.  The real question is whether they will be allowed to preach the Truth.  I don't think anyone can answer it.  I suspect Bishop Fellay will feel like he will have assurances he can.  He's not suicidal.  He might be wrong, but he will believe that.  So we'll see what happens a few weeks after the regularization when Fellay is condemning the NWO.

Does the Vatican attempt to gag him, and then he leave?  My gut says they'll say something like "Bishop Fellay doesn't necessarily represent what the Church believes", but lets him and his priests preach the Truth.

The contradiction will end up being forced.

Or it all blows up and God uses some other means to preserve His Church.  The steady progress of Tradition is strong evidence that the SSPX will be forcing the contradiction.

[James02]

And I'd be lying if I didn't admit this:  the Hegelian insanity of Caritas in Veritate is far more alarming to me than the documents of Vatican II.