Are Traditional Women too Choosy with Men?

[Phillipus Iacobus]

I don't agree with this "clicking" business.  Marriage is about working stuff out.  Pretty much every few weeks something comes along where you could blow a fuse, go into a sulk or just grin and carry on.

Whether you clicked back in 2002 has little to do with how you react to each new argument, conflict or difference of opinion.

I'm firmly of the opinion that if you take two good people, good willed people who want their marriage to work and you forced them to get married with no option of remarrying anyone else (i.e. Malta 50 years ago) they could stay married till death, raise a happy family and love each other.

Would they have the blissful romance of some couples?  Probably not, but they could have a happy and successful marriage nevertheless.  Far happier than most people who strongly believed there was a click at the start.

Clicking does not really mean very much at all.  All it signifies is some initial attraction which is often very passing anyway.

The problem with thinking that a click is necessary is that you don't know how loud the click should be or what it should taste like.  It is a very subjective judgement.  If you find Mr Right but he only has a half or 3/4 click do you agree to marry him or wait?

What I mean by "clicking" is that there has to be some compatibility.

I agree that true love and marriage should not be an idealized, romantic prince charming view, with no problems and everything working perfectly and "happily ever after."

Today, people call it quits far too easily and quickly. If there's a big fight, or someone messes up, that's it, it's over. Another problem I have observed is a lack of honesty and communication.

 

I'm firmly of the opinion that if you take two good people, good willed people who want their marriage to work and you forced them to get married with no option of remarrying anyone else (i.e. Malta 50 years ago) they could stay married till death, raise a happy family and love each other.

Absolutely. People can work it out. Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, all of us have been influenced by harmful modern ideas (feminism, liberalism etc.) This, along with older norms (Church, state, and social) to fall back on, added with our temptations, mean people quit too easily.

[Phillipus Iacobus]

In regards to what Vetus says, yes, he raises points about social expectation that some of us may even hold subconsciously. However, as I have told Vetus, we should not overemphasize natural elements, forgetting grace and supernatural elements. We're serious Catholics; of course we're gonna go against "norms" or "expectations."

[kingtheoden]

This has become an interesting discussion, with points taken all over the spectrum.  

Quickly, to clarify a few points: A) I am 28, not in my 30s-40s B) I do not even consider women below 27 (and have only dated older, partly because I seem older, partly because I have a lot to lose dealing with a too-youthful girl) C) My intention is not to blackmail, but to call out a poster who has a penchant for making worthless posts and painting entire groups of people with black brushes.  We are Catholics and should not be obsessed with finding some imaginary fault with each other D) While implying I am a 'creeper' is more humerous than anything else, this sort of talk is not something I want to support because I know for our younger friends, this is a common put down and extremely hurtful.

The topic was not meant in bitterness, but reality.  My overall point is that, in my experience, traditional women are not different from 'average' women in that they will, in the same rate, be game players.  The moment a man responds to their interest, they will quickly go ice cold, looking for something else.

Now, my personal explanation is that this is more of an American phenomenon and as such, it fairly evenly permeates traditional Catholic boundaries.  It is a major point of frustration for me because on the one hand we want to take the good, solid advice of our Priests, to marry (authentic, traditional) Catholic, but these women are just as interested in the 'bad boy' as your average Novus Ordo, or whatever.

That's simply been my observation and that of others.  If you disagree with this assertion, then the thread becomes pointless (or at least wrong, in which case I most earnestly invite your comments.  

Also, HK nailed an element of what I said: while girls might like to be chased, they seem to dislike even more fervently being ignored.  It is a bad idea to be 'nice' to a woman because you immediately get viewed as a 'friend.'  Any pursuit has to be clear in its direction and that the man is the decider in cutting bait.  

So getting past my personal biases, what I was driving at was weighing the degree to which the Sex and the City culture has obliterated the concept of marriage and the family to to point that in this hall of mirrors, there few marriages.

James, thank you for your comment.  Do you think that there is any real quantity of traditional marriages on the horizon?  For me, I don't see it; rather, it would appear that traditional Catholics are going to become a significant share of the population, simply because of the mass contraception program in place, but not due to any significant increase in rate of marriage.

[Phillipus Iacobus]

Kingtheo,

The thing is that being a traditional Catholic does not make one immune to modern viewpoints. Trads think like "everyone else" because we are part of everyone else, and whilst we have the true Faith and live differently, like I said, some influence remains.

[kingtheoden]

CP, you are correct.  But so is Vetus: the easiest way to get an ice queen's attention is to be seen being friendly with an attractive belle.

So, the question that I would have, Are we in the midst of a castisement so great that most women, even Panis Angelicus singing, mantilla wearing, apparition-centered women will still prefer Tony DiNozzo's style to St. John's?  And thus, are normal, attractive, well-off men simply to accept this as a Cross to bear?

I don't ask this for academic purposes, because for me this has come up in converstation.

[Parmandur]

The topic was not meant in bitterness, but reality.  My overall point is that, in my experience, traditional women are not different from 'average' women in that they will, in the same rate, be game players.  The moment a man responds to their interest, they will quickly go ice cold, looking for something else.

OK, I'll admit, I'm not sure what you mean by this?  

[Phillipus Iacobus]

CP, you are correct.  But so is Vetus: the easiest way to get an ice queen's attention is to be seen being friendly with an attractive belle.

I don't know about the rest of your question, but in regards to this point: of course! If you saw the girl you liked talking and flirting with some dude (competition), you would want to step it up.

[Parmandur]

CP, you are correct.  But so is Vetus: the easiest way to get an ice queen's attention is to be seen being friendly with an attractive belle.

So, the question that I would have, Are we in the midst of a castisement so great that most women, even Panis Angelicus singing, mantilla wearing, apparition-centered women will still prefer Tony DiNozzo's style to St. John's?  And thus, are normal, attractive, well-off men simply to accept this as a Cross to bear?

I don't ask this for academic purposes, because for me this has come up in converstation.

Hey, why ya gottta pick on Tony?  

Why should women prefer one particular fashion style over another?  If fashion is important, go with what's in style, that is what will get women's attention.

[Crusading Philologist]

I think it is probably true that women these days have a greater preference for "bad boys," at least partly because most people are no longer thinking of these things in terms of getting married soon, but I'm not sure that women in any age have been interested in boring men. I'm not saying that you are boring, but I think sometimes complaining about this sort of stuff can be a way of ignoring our own mistakes. Even if you are going after a virtuous traditional Catholic girl, you still need to be able to get her attention.

[ggreg]

A lot of Trads, not a majority, but a significant minority are overly concerned with externals. They have grown up in families where people were like that and they have a sort of external shell to their personality which can make them a little stiff or dull.

As people get older most develop tastes, passions, styles etc. These are generally the things the opposite sex are attracted to. The more obvious these traits the better you are going to do at the dating game.

It helps to see yourself through the eyes of the opposite sex and develop and improve the traits they find positive, so that rather than merely features those traits are decision making.

Boring really means non differentiating and clearly most people like to feel that their spouse is in someway special or that they got a catch.

My wife rejected richer, smarter and more handsome men than me. I worked out why.

It's a competition and therefore the principles of sales and marketing apply.