Incorrupt??

[Scriptorium]

I have often told my story of smelling roses in Padre Pio's glove. To make it short, a relic of his glove was brought to our church. The nuns walked past me, my priest, and friends. Only some of us smelled it, even though we were right next to one another. The smell was very fresh and very "invigorating". Nothing fake or "Smell No. 9" about it. A few of us looked at each other. Later we discussed and some people didn't know what we were talking about. They didn't smell it. I didn't smell it later when we venerated the relic. Why did we smell it then? I don't know. My closest brush with "miraculous". The other was when a dove appeared in the vestibule of our church when our priest was made a monsignor. That one's circumstantial, but people were crying because of how "uncanny" the event was. There are other small things.

The thing with incorruptibility is that the person decay's slowly, at a rate much lower than they should. They line them with wax for display. The big deal is when they're exhumed, not how they fare after display, even though that may be interesting too. All they are for us are motives to piety and belief.

Anyone want to read a good one on Padre Pio, read Padre Pio Under Investigation, by Francesco Castelli. It talks about the stigmata, the rose smell of the blood (and even his body, like his hair after a cut), the biolocation, the temperatures of up to 117 degrees F when he prayed, and a few other things. Knowing a bit about how other religions work "miracles," particularly through meditation, Padre Pio is probably more indicative of the Catholic ways. He didn't know how he bilocated at all, but it occurred during prayer. Read up. If these things don't build your faith, then what will. I haven't worked any miracles lately.

[Melkite]

Anybody who has been around bodies who have been dead and left alone for a while will tell you...the first thing you notice is the smell. The miracle, however unimpressive, is still a miracle despite it not being particularly picturesque. One should respect the approval of the Church in this regard and not argue against it. For example, somebody mentioned the Shroud of Turin here, and I did not argue against it or even stated that I had my reservations about certain claims about it, yet, what purpose would it be to express that? Why should my doubts about a particular miraculous event be something I would try to convince others to share? 

It only became an issue when voxpop accused vetus of being a protestant and a heretic because he (vetus) wasn't automatically willing to ascribe a miracle to a mummified corpse.  When one accuses you of heresy for not being an irrational fanatic, it then serves a purpose to explain why you think a given miracle is not because there isn't anything particularly unnatural or extravagant about it.

[JoeVoxxPop]

Anybody who has been around bodies who have been dead and left alone for a while will tell you...the first thing you notice is the smell. The miracle, however unimpressive, is still a miracle despite it not being particularly picturesque. One should respect the approval of the Church in this regard and not argue against it. For example, somebody mentioned the Shroud of Turin here, and I did not argue against it or even stated that I had my reservations about certain claims about it, yet, what purpose would it be to express that? Why should my doubts about a particular miraculous event be something I would try to convince others to share? 

It only became an issue when voxpop accused vetus of being a protestant and a heretic because he (vetus) wasn't automatically willing to ascribe a miracle to a mummified corpse.  When one accuses you of heresy for not being an irrational fanatic, it then serves a purpose to explain why you think a given miracle is not because there isn't anything particularly unnatural or extravagant about it.

It is an undisputed fact that Vetus by his own admission is a protestant...and from another thread he clearly holds heretical views. The thing that rubs me wrong is his intellectual snobbery and looking down on the simple childlike faith of many poor and uneducated catholics.....a faith he has called crude and superstitious. He even called our Ladys appearances in Fatima objectively evil and the root of apostasy in Portugal...so it wasnt only this...its just I already know his trajectory...so why suffer him to mock another venerable tradition of the faith... incorruptibles.

[salus]

This thread started with asking for your opinions of who of the fighting trads overjust the last 60 years might be incorrupt

[Melkite]

It is an undisputed fact that Vetus by his own admission is a protestant...and from another thread he clearly holds heretical views. The thing that rubs me wrong is his intellectual snobbery and looking down on the simple childlike faith of many poor and uneducated catholics.....a faith he has called crude and superstitious. He even called our Ladys appearances in Fatima objectively evil and the root of apostasy in Portugal...so it wasnt only this...its just I already know his trajectory...so why suffer him to mock another venerable tradition of the faith... incorruptibles.

And if your faith in these so-called miracles actually is crude and superstitious?

Can you quote where Vetus said he was a protestant and he called the appearances at Fatima evil and the root of apostasy in Portugal?  I have a hard time believe he actually said that based on what I've read from him over the past few years, but even if he did say that I'm sure in context it doesn't match the way you are spinning it.

[Rosarium]

It is an undisputed fact that Vetus by his own admission is a protestant...and from another thread he clearly holds heretical views. The thing that rubs me wrong is his intellectual snobbery and looking down on the simple childlike faith of many poor and uneducated catholics.....a faith he has called crude and superstitious. He even called our Ladys appearances in Fatima objectively evil and the root of apostasy in Portugal...so it wasnt only this...its just I already know his trajectory...so why suffer him to mock another venerable tradition of the faith... incorruptibles.

And if your faith in these so-called miracles actually is crude and superstitious?

Can you quote where Vetus said he was a protestant and he called the appearances at Fatima evil and the root of apostasy in Portugal?  I have a hard time believe he actually said that based on what I've read from him over the past few years, but even if he did say that I'm sure in context it doesn't match the way you are spinning it.

Look at his public profile...it identifies himself "Disclaimer: High Church Protestant".

And as I read the last posts of his and I see many disturbing things, including one which states that the Church teaches that traditional Presbyterian services can be a means of salvation.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3451485.msg33753861.html#msg33753861

Appeals to ambiguity are not appropriate for the matters of faith.

[Melkite]

It is an undisputed fact that Vetus by his own admission is a protestant...and from another thread he clearly holds heretical views. The thing that rubs me wrong is his intellectual snobbery and looking down on the simple childlike faith of many poor and uneducated catholics.....a faith he has called crude and superstitious. He even called our Ladys appearances in Fatima objectively evil and the root of apostasy in Portugal...so it wasnt only this...its just I already know his trajectory...so why suffer him to mock another venerable tradition of the faith... incorruptibles.

And if your faith in these so-called miracles actually is crude and superstitious?

Can you quote where Vetus said he was a protestant and he called the appearances at Fatima evil and the root of apostasy in Portugal?  I have a hard time believe he actually said that based on what I've read from him over the past few years, but even if he did say that I'm sure in context it doesn't match the way you are spinning it.

Look at his public profile...it identifies himself "Disclaimer: High Church Protestant".

And as I read the last posts of his and I see many disturbing things, including one which states that the Church teaches that traditional Presbyterian services can be a means of salvation.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3451485.msg33753861.html#msg33753861

Appeals to ambiguity are not appropriate for the matters of faith.

How long has that been there?  Is there a joke behind it?  I've never noticed that before, so I'm assuming it's relatively recent.

[CollegeCatholic]

Melkite:  It came after he "professed" his heretical viewpoints in the Co-Redemptrix thread.  JayneK then made a thread in the Cornfield asking how to deal with heretics on the forum.

[CollegeCatholic]

Anybody who has been around bodies who have been dead and left alone for a while will tell you...the first thing you notice is the smell. The miracle, however unimpressive, is still a miracle despite it not being particularly picturesque. One should respect the approval of the Church in this regard and not argue against it. For example, somebody mentioned the Shroud of Turin here, and I did not argue against it or even stated that I had my reservations about certain claims about it, yet, what purpose would it be to express that? Why should my doubts about a particular miraculous event be something I would try to convince others to share? 

It only became an issue when voxpop accused vetus of being a protestant and a heretic because he (vetus) wasn't automatically willing to ascribe a miracle to a mummified corpse.  When one accuses you of heresy for not being an irrational fanatic, it then serves a purpose to explain why you think a given miracle is not because there isn't anything particularly unnatural or extravagant about it.

This.

[INPEFESS]

Melkite:  It came after he "professed" his heretical viewpoints in the Co-Redemptrix thread.  JayneK then made a thread in the Cornfield asking how to deal with heretics on the forum.

CC, I think Melkite is referring to the linked thread, which was from April of last year. In that thread, Vetus was joking around about leaving the Catholic Church for Calvinism. He staunchly defended this position until admitting that it was an April fool's joke. Some thought it was amusing; some found it to be quite distressing, scandalous, and in poor taste.