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Author Topic: Why no Sacrifices for Jews?  (Read 2277 times)
Crusading Philologist
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 06:38:PM »

Interestingly enough, Margaret Barker argues that the tradition out of which Christianity originated, keeping in mind that by this time the Jews had already been deeply hellenized, considered the priests of the Temple to have fallen into apostasy long before the birth of Christ. According to her, this tradition held to the cult of the First Temple, and so thought that contemporary Judaism had been corrupted. I'm not educated enough to judge her claims, but it's certainly an interesting idea, and she seems to be respected in her field. 
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jonbhorton
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 06:59:PM »

Jon,

You made a good point about the Levites. How can any Levitical descendants exist. Also remember how God punished those non-Levites who wanted to be priests in the OT.

No Temple, no priests, no coincidence.

Many Jews are named Cohen, and as this is a play on the Kohanim, which is to say they are named "Priest" and descend from the Kohanim "Priests" (unless there is an exception I'm not aware of, any semitic word, particularly Hebrew, ending in "-im" is a pluralized version).

So, if you ever meet a Jew named Judah Cohen, his name literally translates to Judas Priest. LOL

However, there's no way to really prove their great-great-great-great .... grandfather didn't decide he wanted to just be called Cohen.

As far as I can tell, there's not any way to determine true tribal lineage now. I can see where they might infer a Levitical lineage by a name, but there's no way to prove it like in the old days of when the stuff actually mattered.
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Walty
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 07:09:PM »

They would need to get the spot where the Dome of the Rock is to reestablish a "temple" and have "sacrifices."

This is not the case for all sects of Judaism.  See my video above.
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Phillipus Iacobus
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 07:17:PM »

Quote from: jonbhorton
Many Jews are named Cohen, and as this is a play on the Kohanim, which is to say they are named "Priest" and descend from the Kohanim "Priests" (unless there is an exception I'm not aware of, any semitic word, particularly Hebrew, ending in "-im" is a pluralized version).

So, if you ever meet a Jew named Judah Cohen, his name literally translates to Judas Priest. LOL

I'm LOLing.
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salus
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 07:37:PM »

If the Jews try to rebuild the temple all hell and i mean HELL! will explode in the Muslim world. Unfortunately the majority of Jews are more cultural than religiously jewish, (sounds like cafeteria catholics) and so i don't see it happening although a small group of orthodox jews would like to rebuild.
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salus
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 07:45:PM »

If they ever decide to rebuild you can be sure that pack of Protestant heretics will be leading the fundraising , will that mean the Trad Catholics will have to back the Muslims to stop the building?, as they say in parts of Brooklyn Oy Vey!
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werdegast
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2012, 08:05:PM »

If they ever decide to rebuild you can be sure that pack of Protestant heretics will be leading the fundraising , will that mean the Trad Catholics will have to back the Muslims to stop the building?, as they say in parts of Brooklyn Oy Vey!
Very true, and they will be pawns of the Anti-Christ following their "Chosen People".
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jonbhorton
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2012, 08:26:PM »

If they ever decide to rebuild you can be sure that pack of Protestant heretics will be leading the fundraising , will that mean the Trad Catholics will have to back the Muslims to stop the building?, as they say in parts of Brooklyn Oy Vey!
Very true, and they will be pawns of the Anti-Christ following their "Chosen People".

Would you care to expound on your ignorance of Protestant end-times doctrine?

The Protestant mindset is generally (in terms of the persuasion you're addressing) that the Temple will be rebuilt because they believe it is prophesied to be. However, they also almost unanimously agree that all sacrifice desirable to God was fulfilled by Christ, and that any further sacrifice is displeasing.

Based on Daniel 9, and other Old Testament Prophecy (often out of context and proper understanding) they believe the Anti-Christ will allow the rebuilding of the Temple and Israel will sign a 7 year peace treaty through his help allowing this. Eventually leading to a large chunk of Jews falling to the Anti-Christ. Then, at 3.5 years into the treaty, he will stop the Jewish Temple services and declare himself God. This is generally when it is believed that a massive number convert to Christianity. Some believe that they will convert during an impending war prophesied in either Psalm 83 or Ezekiel 38/39. It's all mixed up. They can't really agree on much, but most all agree the rebuilding of the Temple is expected and there's not much they can do to stop it. It excites them because they generally believe it starts the countdown to the Rapture, is the Rapture (at some indeterminable time between the signing and the rapture being very close), the Rapture takes place before it, or the Rapture takes place just before, during, or right after the 3.5 year mark wherein the Anti-Christ is absolutely confirmed to be revealed.

Some still hold to post-trib rapture which is nothing more than a different way of saying the Resurrection. This camp believes that Christians will go through the entirety of the end-times so as to be warriors for Christ, winning souls from the enemy's grasp until they hunker down once the Mark of the Beast is implemented and all are sifted.

Only a very small pocket of Messianic Jewish groups will like the Temple's rebuilding out of all the Protestant understandings I am familiar with. And they're fairly insignificant.

If there is any excitement over it, the Anti-Christ's revelation is almost 100% consistent because it is scripture-based.

It's hard to really explain the subtlety of the Protestant excitement over the Temple being rebuilt. They're anticipating it, but not for it in the sense of wanting sacrifice reinstated.They merely see it as confirmation of all the things they're waiting for, including the conversion of the Jews.
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mikemac
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Queen of Canada. Canada was consecrated in 1954.


« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2012, 11:53:PM »

Knowing this why are you still a Christian Zionist jonbhorton?

One of the popes in the early 20th century, I forget which one it was, (Benedict XV or Pius XI I think) when asked by Zionists if he'd support a future state for the Jews in the Holy Land said no he wouldn't.  The Vatican didn't recognize the State of Israel until 1995.  Traditionally the Catholic Church has not supported a state for the Jews in the Holy Land, obviously because it may bring about the building of the Third Temple and the antichrist.  To support it is akin to supporting the other side.

St. Victorinus, one of the Fathers of the Church flourished about 270 AD, roughly 200 years after the destruction of the Second Temple.  But with the Zionist plan to build the Third Temple of Solomon St. Victorinus is looking like a prophet these days with his Commentary on the Apocalypse.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0712.htm

Quote
From the Eleventh Chapter (about the two witnesses)
8. "And their dead bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt." But He calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt, since it had become the heaping up of the persecuting people. Therefore it behooves us diligently, and with the utmost care, to follow the prophetic announcement, and to understand what the Spirit from the Father both announces and anticipates, and how, when He has gone forward to the last times, He again repeats the former ones. And now, what He will do once for all, He sometimes sets forth as if it were done; and unless you understand this, as sometimes done, and sometimes as about to be done, you will fall into a great confusion. Therefore the interpretation of the following sayings has shown therein, that not the order of the reading, but the order of the discourse, must be understood.

From the Thirteenth chapter.
13. "And he shall make fire come down from heaven in the sight of men." Yes (as I also have said), in the sight of men. Magicians do these things, by the aid of the apostate angels, even to this day. He shall cause also that a golden image of Antichrist shall be placed in the temple at Jerusalem, and that the apostate angel should enter, and thence utter voices and oracles. Moreover, he himself shall contrive that his servants and children should receive as a mark on their foreheads, or on their right hands, the number of his name, lest any one should buy or sell them. Daniel had previously predicted his contempt and provocation of God. "And he shall place," says he, "his temple within Samaria, upon the illustrious and holy mountain that is at Jerusalem, an image such as Nebuchadnezzar had made." Daniel 11:45 Thence here he places, and by and by here he renews, that of which the Lord, admonishing His churches concerning the last times and their dangers, says: "But when you shall see the contempt which is spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place, let him who reads understand." Matthew 24:15; Daniel 9:27 It is called a contempt when God is provoked, because idols are worshipped instead of God, or when the dogma of heretics is introduced in the churches. But it is a turning away because steadfast men, seduced by false signs and portents, are turned away from their salvation.

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end."
http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=32&ch=9&l=27#x

2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 "That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, [4] Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God."
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/60002.htm

Muslims also believe in the eschatology of the antichrist in the end times.  They call the antichrist the al-Masih ad-Dajjal.
"al-Masih ad-Dajjal (Arabic for "the false messiah"), is an evil figure in Islamic eschatology. He is to appear pretending to be Masih (i.e. the Messiah) at a time in the future, before Yawm al-Qiyamah (Judgment Day), directly comparable to the figures of the Antichrist and Armilus in Christian and Jewish eschatology, respectively."  "Isa (Jesus) will return and the Dajjal will gather an army of those he has deceived and lead them in a war against Jesus, who shall be accompanied by an army of the righteous."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masih_ad-Dajjal

Daily for hundreds of years Jews have been praying for their messiah so they can return to the Holy Land.  The high majority of rabbis originally rejected Zionism when Theodor Herzl the father of modern political Zionism and in effect the State of Israel convened and chaired the First Zionist Congress in 1897.  Many rabbis call Zionism and the idea of a homeland for the Jews in Palestine a blasphemy against God.  This web site has a different quote by a different rabbi from the past to the present on their front page every day with their writings against Zionism.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

This is what the True Torah Jews have to say about the building of the Third Temple.
"At the same time, we wish to warn Jews that even if the Zionists do, G-d forbid, succeed in building a temple, it will not be the long-awaited Third Temple of G-d, but a temple of Satanic forces. This was stated 90 years ago by Rabbi Shmuel Weinberg, the Slonimer Rebbe, on his deathbed: "Jews, you must know that before the coming of the messiah, a group of unsavory people will travel to Eretz Yisroel, and they will enjoy great victories there, and they will build a temple, and a fire will come down from heaven in this temple as it did in the First Temple. And you must know that this fire will not be from the Holy Side, but from the Other Side."
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=88

And then there's the many Jews both inside Israel and around the world that advocate for a one state solution for the Israeli/Palestinian problem giving equal rights to both the Jews and the Palestinians because they now realize that the Palestinian Jews, Christians and Muslims are descendants of the ancient Israelites.
http://www.alternet.org/story/122810/?page=1

In 1827 John Nelson Darby's Plymouth Brethren is founded to propagate the Christian eschatological movement of dispensationalism, which teaches that God looks upon Jews as the chosen people (rejecting supersessionism), and that the nation of Israel will be born again and brought to realize they crucified their Messiah at his second coming.  As there was no Christian teaching of a “rapture” before Darby began preaching about it in the 1830s, he is sometimes credited with originating the "secret rapture" theory wherein Christ will suddenly remove His bride, the Church, from this world before the judgments of the tribulation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Zionism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby

The Zionists need a red heifer for their blood sacrifice or burnt offering in the Third Temple.
From this page titled "Forcing the End"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/readings/forcing.html

Quote
In the spring of 1989, a Pentecostal preacher named Clyde Lott was thumbing through the Bible, looking up all the references to cows.

...

As Lott read the Bible that day, he realized that the Second Coming and the fate of humankind now depended on the red heifer.

...

In the fall of 1994, Richman went to Mississippi to examine four freshly washed and groomed heifers that Lott had produced for his inspection. The Talmud states that even two hairs that are not red would be enough to disqualify a candidate. One of the cows immediately caught Richman's eye. "He didn't even look at the three others," Lott recalls. "He walked into that pen with that heifer tied to the back of that stall, and he just stopped for a few minutes to appraise her from one end to the other. Then he walked right up to that heifer within a matter of inches, and he looked down at her, then he went back four or five feet and just stared at her." Finally, Richman placed his hand on the animal, which Lott's daughter, who was then six, had named Dixie. "This is the heifer that will change the world," Richman said.

...

According to Clyde Lott, the intent of many Evangelical Christians who are helping Israel today is to speed along the time when they will be raptured into Heaven, leaving behind a world in chaos and flames.

...

In August, 1996, a surprising development occurred: another red calf was born, this time in Israel, on a farm outside Haifa run by a religious high school.

...

The Reverend Lott had been suspicious of Melody's qualifications, but the episode alerted him and Rabbi Richman to the sensational political consequences of their project. Nevertheless, on the eve of the ninth day of the Hebrew month of Av, in 1997--coincidentally, the day on which the destruction of both the First and Second Temples is commemorated--Lott, Richman, and a group of West Bank settlers reached an agreement to provide land to raise red cattle. Lott and Richman are partners, but, in the event that Lott is raptured with the Church, Richman and the settlers will assume entire control of the operation. This December, they are planning to ship five hundred pregnant cows to the Jordan Valley. The cattle are being bred in Nebraska, on a three-thousand acre spread devoted to Red Angus. There seems little doubt that a red heifer that meets all the Halakic criteria will soon be born in Israel, possibly early next year. Land that Lott has found is in the occupied West Bank--"some of the most hotly contested land in the world," he admitted recently to a revival audience in Gulf Shores, Alabama. "It's going to require feedlots, slaughter-houses -- a whole new economy." He will also ship frozen embryos from Dixie and other donor cows, along with select sperm, to be held in safekeeping until after the tribulation. According to Lott, his efforts will ensure that "in the first one or two or three decades of the millennial reign Israel will be able to go into the tanks, pull out those frozen embryos, and place them in cows. And in one generation, whatever they lost in he tribulation, they will have the very best cows on the face of the earth....She will be able to get the rest of the world back on its feet again, agriculturally, from a livestock point of view."

The Temple Institute is the Zionist organization with the plans to build the Third Temple on the Temple Mount where the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque now sit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_of_the_Rock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque

"The Temple Institute's ultimate goal is to see Israel rebuild the Holy Temple on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem".  Mount Moriah is the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.htm

According to this Jun 11, 2012 article "The Vatican is about to "indirectly recognize" Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem".  That would basically give the state of Israel full control of the Temple Mount.  I pray that the article is wrong.
http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3451458.msg33752019.html#msg33752019
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 12:17:AM by mikemac » Logged

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Nic
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In Hoc Signo Vinces.


« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2012, 04:20:PM »

I seriously doubt that a "Third Temple" will ever be built - mostly because the world would explode into violence if it was attempted. 

In 70 AD, Divine Power destroyed that Temple and everything it stood for.  That one event was the summit and fulfillment of nearly every Biblical prophesy, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament.  A good portion of Daniel and the entire scope of the Book of Revelation is about this one event - the destruction of Old Jerusalem and the beginning of New Jerusalem, which is the Heavenly Kingdom.

But what is posing as "Judaism" these days in surely not, there are no more "Jews" left on earth so they cannot be converted because they don't exist.  The merits of what made one a "Jew" was utterly destroyed when Jesus spiritually returned in 70 AD to destroy the Temple of Solomon and open Heaven for mankind.

So, this post 70 AD religion that calls itself "Judaism" could in fact try to build another Temple, but it has nothing to do with Biblical prophesy which are all fulfilled - but it will surely not happen unless every Muslim on earth vanishes from thin air.  The Muslims would not allow this to occur.
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"For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
--Ephesians 6:12

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--St. Athanasius

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
--Darth Vader

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