Differing perspectives

[Neo-Floriano]

Wow .. I was just reading that Christians in Spain under Islam rule (711 to 1492) assimilated parts of the Muslim culture. How some learned Arabic, and adopted their styles of clothes. That Christian women even started veiling like Muslim women. Christians who did this were known as Mozarabs.

 

I know some Coptic Orthodox that escaped from Egypt a few years back. They're religion didn't require the women to dress like the Muslim women but they did anyway just because they too were Egyptian.

[StrictCatholicGirl]

Wow .. I was just reading that Christians in Spain under Islam rule (711 to 1492) assimilated parts of the Muslim culture. How some learned Arabic, and adopted their styles of clothes. That Christian women even started veiling like Muslim women. Christians who did this were known as Mozarabs.

I know some Coptic Orthodox that escaped from Egypt a few years back. They're religion didn't require the women to dress like the Muslim women but they did anyway just because they too were Egyptian.

Maybe Muslims in America will adopt our blue jeans and cowboy hats?!

[Scriptorium]

Maybe Muslims in America will adopt our blue jeans and cowboy hats?!

Most Muslims are Americanized. The few standouts are really just that. I also see the middle ground. Blue Jeans with a kind of tunic, and the hijab. Actually, our styles have gone over there. I think men are more apt to adopt our customs, because, well, double standards in many cases.

[Rosarium]

I would say their both "imposed" but one is soft, and the other hard. Both outfits, I believe, we're devised by men.

I think you will find that most things which are "imposed" by men on women are actually reinforced by women.

Bride kidnapping, bound feet, skimpy clothes, etc may be something that men may encourage in a given culture, but it is actually the women who generally impose it on other women.

After all, it cannot be said to be imposed by men if women are the ones who maintain it.

The case of some of the stricter Islamic laws may be exceptions (a few men are able to get power and influence to impose it), but this generally does not happen and it does not happen over a wide area.

[Rosarium]

Maybe Muslims in America will adopt our blue jeans and cowboy hats?!

Most Muslims are Americanized. The few standouts are really just that. I also see the middle ground. Blue Jeans with a kind of tunic, and the hijab. Actually, our styles have gone over there. I think men are more apt to adopt our customs, because, well, double standards in many cases.

Most American Muslims are.

Most Muslims live in Indonesia and are Indonesian in custom.

[Rosarium]

That should be, the country with the most Muslims is Indonesian, so the largest group of Muslims in culture would be Indonesian.

I do not know if the majority of Muslims are in Indonesia. I just know that country has the most.

[The_Harlequin_King]

I think you will find that most things which are "imposed" by men on women are actually reinforced by women.

I agree. If all (American) women got together and decided they were going to stop wearing makeup, high heels, and/or bikinis, there wouldn't be a thing we men could do to stop them. Those industries would simply go the way of the corset or the hoop skirt and cease to exist.


As for Indonesians...... speaking as someone of Indonesian descent, I can say that most Indonesian women don't wear veils. If they do, they're as much a fashion statement as they are religious..... much like in late medieval and Renaissance Europe. It's considered frumpy or low-class to wear a plain, Arab-style veil there.


Indonesian Islamic high fashion:

[Rosarium]

I agree. If all (American) women got together and decided they were going to stop wearing makeup, high heels, and/or bikinis, there wouldn't be a thing we men could do to stop them. Those industries would simply go the way of the corset or the hoop skirt and cease to exist.

But the thing is of course, women won't let other women do that so easily.

Women are quite cruel.

As for Indonesians...... speaking as someone of Indonesian descent, I can say that most Indonesian women don't wear veils. If they do, they're as much a fashion statement as they are religious..... much like in late medieval and Renaissance Europe. It's considered frumpy or low-class to wear a plain, Arab-style veil there.

There are a few areas in Indonesia where they are more conservative, but most Indonesians are quite...Indonesian in their culture.

That is the thing with Islam. It is as fractured as Protestants to the extent many Muslims will deny others are Muslims (I love this with the Salafiya)! Yet they think they are true because their book is in the same language all over the place...

[JuniorCouncilor]

Women are quite cruel.

What, more than human beings in general?  That would surprise me.

[Rosarium]

Women are quite cruel.

What, more than human beings in general?  That would surprise me.

It would surprise me too. Women are humans, human beings in general cannot have less cruelty than women. You just asked whether a set which contains another set contains less than the subset.

I never said women are more cruel than anyone. I wrote they were "quite cruel".