Difference between Knights of Columbus and Masons?

[Geremia]

Masons were responsible for the anti-Catholic French Revolution and its Declaration of the Rights of Man, which says that no one, of any true or false religion, "may be questioned about his opinions, [and the] same [for] religious [opinions], provided that their manifestation does not trouble the public order established by the law."

Pope Gregory XVI, in Mirari Vos, called it an "insanity" that

liberty of conscience and worship is each man's personal right, which ought to be legally proclaimed and asserted in every rightly constituted society; and that a right resides in the citizens to an absolute liberty, which should be restrained by no authority whether ecclesiastical or civil, whereby they may be able openly and publicly to manifest and declare any of their ideas whatever, either by word of mouth, by the press, or in any other way.

Bl. Pope Pius IX's Quanta Cura and Syllabus of errors make similar condemnations.

Now the Knights of Columbus supports the Masonic, Vatican II novelty

that the human person has a right to religious freedom. This freedom means that all men are to be immune from coercion on the part of individuals or of social groups and of any human power, in such wise that no one is to be forced to act in a manner contrary to his own beliefs, whether privately or publicly, whether alone or in association with others, within due limits. (Dignitatis Humanæ §2)

What's the difference between Knights and Masons? Both can be nominally Catholic, and both are secretive.

Thanks for the input

[Cesar_Augustus]

A Catholic can't get involved in Masonic groups, and would be excommunicated for doing that.

Masons did more than French Revolution and Declaration of the Rights of Man. They are still a real threat.

[Geremia]

A Catholic can't get involved in Masonic groups, and would be excommunicated for doing that.

Yes, that's correct. Then-Card. Ratzinger wrote so in 1983. That's why I say "nominally Catholic."

[Geremia]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56gkVRtGMK0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56gkVRtGMK0</a>

[jonbhorton]

I've never understood the point of the KoC, and still don't. What do they accomplish? What purpose do they truly serve? Are they a Catholic response to Freemasonry?

See no need for the secrecy either. I read a bit of the CAF thread you linked and all the reasons the Knights gave are verbatim of the Masonic reasons and excuses. "We're not a secret society, but a society with secrets", "we do good things for people,  "I'm a lady auxiliary and I know many things, no secret"(uhhh, ma'am, you're involved with them, of course you know more), "only our rites and initiations are secret" etc. Well no sh**, guy. Of course the car wash/spaghetti dinner ain't a secret.

I am 100% sure I'll never join. I've been involved with service groups before. More time and money gets wasted on talking about helping people than helping people.

Why in the hell is the head guy making a million dollars+ a year? That's ridiculous. The President makes half that and he runs a country with nukes.

Like all organizations I'm sure they started out with a great purpose. Then they realized that have power and became corrupt. Most lower degree Masons have no idea of the evil to which they've attached themselves. All the excuses and reasons given by Knights are too close to the Masons' for my liking.

[newyorkcatholic]

The rites are secret, and though I can't say anything about them since I promised not to, the reason for the secrecy is so that the rites have meaning when they are experienced as something new.

You can choose to disbelieve me if you like.  Also some secrecy might be something to hold the brothers together, just a thought.

I am personally certain there is nothing nefarious.

And it's not just the spaghetti dinners that have no secrecy.  Nothing else about the Knights is a secret - who has what office, what the officers do, where the money goes, what the projects are. 

A third point: Knights make no promises to do anything that contradicts basic morality and the Faith.  That always takes precedence over any "secrets."

Another point: the goals.  The masons have evil goals.  The Knights, though imperfect and sinners, generally support the Church and the Pope.

Our council supports the Traditional Latin Mass.

[Geremia]

I've never understood the point of the KoC, and still don't. What do they accomplish? What purpose do they truly serve? Are they a Catholic response to Freemasonry?

I've understood it as a means to get around the 501(c)(3) tax exemption status of churches. KoC isn't a 501(c)(3), so it can be political.

See no need for the secrecy either. I read a bit of the CAF thread you linked and all the reasons the Knights gave are verbatim of the Masonic reasons and excuses. "We're not a secret society, but a society with secrets", "we do good things for people,  "I'm a lady auxiliary and I know many things, no secret"(uhhh, ma'am, you're involved with them, of course you know more), "only our rites and initiations are secret" etc. Well no sh**, guy. Of course the car wash/spaghetti dinner ain't a secret.

I showed up late to a 1st degree initiation meeting, and I literally spent an hour looking for the room they were meeting at in a church. I knew they were they because at least 4  out of the ~10 cars in the parking lot that late at night had KoC license plates. Eventually, I met a "Life Teen" person staying late in his office, and he showed me the locked room they were in and told me, after I saw they had all the blinds shut and fold-up tables propped up over the windows, "They do that. Why don't you just wait here for them to finish."

[newyorkcatholic]

Also remember secrecy is not inherently evil.  Truths of the faith were, in the ancient Church, revealed progressively (not in a gnostic way, but there were things further explained to catechumens that would not be told to seekers, and the mystagogia were for those already baptized).  This is especially true of liturgical matters (the disciplina arcani).

[Geremia]

Also remember secrecy is not inherently evil.

Yes, that's true, but, e.g.: "Eph 5:8 For you were heretofore darkness, but now light in the Lord. Walk then as children of the light."

This is especially true of liturgical matters (the disciplina arcani).

What is "the disciplina arcani"?

[newyorkcatholic]

Also remember secrecy is not inherently evil.

Yes, that's true, but, e.g.: "Eph 5:8 For you were heretofore darkness, but now light in the Lord. Walk then as children of the light."

This is especially true of liturgical matters (the disciplina arcani).

What is "the disciplina arcani"?

In the early Church many liturgical matters were not to be written about or discussed.  This was also reflected in having catechumens depart for the "Mass of the Faithful" - called that because it was only for the faithful.

There is actually a hole in the history of documents on the liturgy, when the disciplina arcani was taken most seriously.