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Author Topic: Pope says atheists are saved  (Read 4395 times)
a83192
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« on: May 22, 2013, 09:54:PM »

This is heresy what he said
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html

Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace.

Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Pope Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”
Pope Francis went further in his sermon to say:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”
Responding to the leader of the Roman Catholic church's homily, Father James Martin, S.J. wrote in an email to The Huffington Post:

"Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."
Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don't believe will be redeemed, and the Pope's words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.

The pope's comment has also struck a chord on Reddit, where it is the second most-shared piece.

More from Reuters:

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis said on Wednesday in his latest urging that people of all religions - or no religion - work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning Mass in his residence, a daily event where he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical conversation in which someone told a priest: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.
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Vox Clamantis
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 10:27:PM »

Your thread title is a lie. Atheists are redeemed; they are not necessarily saved. Don't accuse His Holiness of "heresy," especially if, no offense intended, you don't know what you're talking about.
 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 10:34:PM by Vox Clamantis » Logged

maldon
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 10:37:PM »

This is not heresy.

Atheist can do good. This is obvious.
Our Lord died to save everyone. In this sense, the Redemption was performed for the benefit of all. Maybe not all will respond before death. Perhaps, then, not all will be saved. But all can be saved, because all can convert before death, and no one knows the final state of anyone else's soul. An atheist today can be a Catholic on his deathbed. And even an atheist today can do good today. I do think that the use of the term redeemed can get screwy, as can the word you chose to use, "saved" which I did not see used by the pope the way you suggested at all.

I don't know who the other SJ priest is, and I don't agree with everything he said. But he is also not the pope.

I found it hilarious that they said Benedict made non-Catholics feel like second-class believers. I mean, some non-Catholics are non-believers, not even second class. A little weird. But I think the article is just another angle taken on a topic to sort of juice it up and make it controversial.
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Unum Sint
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 10:47:PM »

Yes, this again is an attempt to besmirch the Pope and buy in to the medias attempt to soil Benedict's legacy and destroy the True Faith. So glad to see the poster cooperating with the enemy by posting this.
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St. Drogo
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—Dieu des humbles, sauvez cet enfant de colère!


« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 10:55:PM »

Your thread title is a lie. Atheists are redeemed; they are not necessarily saved. Don't accuse His Holiness of "heresy," especially if, no offense intended, you don't know what you're talking about.
 

I agree. I think you should change the title as it is scandalous in the proper sense.
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Sant Anselmo
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Ut in omnibus glorifector Deus.


« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 11:07:PM »

Agreed that what the Pope said was not heresy and he did not, according to the articles provided, say that atheists are saved. 

However, it is already causing confusion, and thus perhaps it was not the most prudent choice of words the Holy Father has used in his homilies to date.  He seems to speak a bit off the cuff and sometimes things just don't come out as clearly as you intended when you speak in that manner.  Predictably, this is causing problems on CAF: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=789514

I really have a hard time understanding why someone who doesn't believe in anything the Church teaches or stands for bothers to keep calling themselves Catholic.  I just cannot get my head around it at all. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 11:43:PM by Sant Anselmo » Logged

ArturoOrtiz
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 11:32:PM »

I agree most definetely it is not heresy.

Rather might not have been the best homily or speech, but you can't expect all homilies and talks that someone give to be tip top. Not even the pope for that matter. I know people including priest who are pious defenders of the faith, but sometimes their talks might  not come out quite as good.

Neverless praying for the pope he may always be led by the Holy Spirit Pray
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Walking In The Desert
DustinsDad
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 11:42:PM »

The pope didn't say athiests are saved. What he did say does boggle my easily boggled mind however. They can be easily twisted in exactly the way they have been. And what, do we really need to have the message that "hey athiests can do good things" Huh? As if the great crisis of today is that Catholics don't think highly enough of non-catholics. Good grief, the crisis is religious indifferentism. How does our pope and all the hierarchy not see this?

The crisis continues..
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(Psalms 115:16) O Lord, for I am thy servant: I am thy servant, and the son of thy handmaid. Thou hast broken my bonds:
 
(cf Luke 1:38)  And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word.

(John 19:27) After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.

(Rev 12:17) And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
SaintRafael
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 02:00:AM »

Every Human being has been redeemed through the cross and death of Jesus Christ. Our salvation depends on our response to our redemption. All men are redeemed, but not all are saved. It's basic theology 101.
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charlesh
You must go back in order to push forward.
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 02:24:AM »

Atheists can perform natural good. They will be rewarded in this life for it. Supernatural good is what merits us salvation. Pope Francis doesn't distinguish here, so it's confusing. The Huffington Post doesn't help when it uses "redeem" in place of "save." "Redeemed" by good works? Really??

Let's see if this becomes a common theme of Francis' talks. I remember jp2 teaching Universal Salvation without ever coming right out and say ing it. Gosh, you can teach so much with just insinuations.
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