HOT: God told me to invide Irak. - George W Bush.

[royalcello]

Amen, Eric!

The Kaiser's dynasty was Hohenzollern.  And let's not forget all the smaller German monarchies, many of which were Catholic, that were abolished as well.

[royalcello]

Hey, Royal, speaking of art, we Catholics need some gorgeous, penitential, somber, expectant and hopeful Advent hymns --- ones that are easily sung and which sound haunting and ancient.

I doubt that the existing repertory of the Catholic Church lacks hymns meeting this description.   But what texts did you have in mind?

[InquisitorGeneralis]

For the most part, yes. The U.S. had no business  "ending tyranny" in Iraq. Dislike of another country's government does  not constitute grounds for just war against that country. The  suggestion that God endorses the monstrous and insane Bush foreign  policy agenda, which has killed over 1,900 American soldiers and who  knows how many Iraqis with no end in sight and no apparent gain,  dramatically worsened the position of Iraqi Christians (who were  relatively safe under Saddam), increased anti-American hatred around  the world, plunged Iraq into chaos and destabilized the Middle East, is  profoundly offensive and preposterous.

May God protect us from  this despicable, moronic, clueless, callous, and incredibly arrogant  president, who makes Clinton look like a wise, prudent, and fiscally  responsible statesman.

The State of Israel has no right to exist and its "security" is certainly not a legitimate interest of the U.S. government.  

Why  would a Catholic be impressed by the prayers of a Protestant heretic  who lacks any trace of humility? And how could any traditionalist  believe that God is actually guiding a president who with his evil  Jacobin agenda of spreading "democracy" by force continues in the  terrible tradition of Woodrow Wilson who ended Christendom by  destroying the ancient Habsburg monarchy, also in the name of  "democracy"?

If there are any supernatural forces guiding and advising Bush, they are surely not from God but rather the other kind.

 
 

[InquisitorGeneralis]

Hey, Royal, speaking of art, we  Catholics need some gorgeous, penitential, somber, expectant and  hopeful Advent hymns --- ones that are easily sung and which sound  haunting and ancient.

I doubt that the existing  repertory of the Catholic Church lacks hymns meeting this description.  But what texts did you have in mind?

 
  I've always been partial to Veni, Veni Emmanuel and Puer Natus in Bethlehem.
 

[VoxClamantis]

Hey, Royal, speaking of art, we Catholics need some gorgeous, penitential, somber, expectant and hopeful Advent hymns --- ones that are easily sung and which sound haunting and ancient.

I doubt that the existing repertory of the Catholic Church lacks hymns meeting this description. But what texts did you have in mind?

 

I'm thinking of things people would sing about the house, not necessarily anything liturgically correct. But it should have a distinct medieval-y feel.

 

Text-wise, what could be better for the occasion than something based on Isaias 9:6-8, 11:1-10:

...his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace. His empire shall be multiplied, and there shall be no end of peace: he shall sit upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom; to establish it and strengthen it with judgment and with justice, from henceforth and for ever: the zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel...

And there shall come forth a rod out of the root of Jesse, and a flower shall rise up out of his root. And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him: the spirit of wisdom, and of understanding, the spirit of counsel, and of fortitude, the spirit of knowledge, and of godliness. And he shall be filled with the spirit of the fear of the Lord. He shall not judge according to the sight of the eyes, nor reprove according to the hearing of the ears. But he shall judge the poor with justice, and shall reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: land he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked. And justice shall be the girdle of his loins: and faith the girdle of his reins. The wolf shall dwell with the lamb: and the leopard shall lie down with the kid: the calf and the lion, and the sheep shall abide together, and a little child shall lead them. The calf and the bear shall feed: their young ones shall rest together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp: and the weaned child shall thrust his hand into the den of the basilisk. They shall not hurt, nor shall they kill in all my holy mountain, for the earth is filled with the knowledge of the Lord, as the covering waters of the sea. In that day the root of Jesse, who standeth for an ensign of the people, him the Gentiles shall beseech, and his sepulchre shall be glorious.

But I'm just talking. Well, I mean, I would love it, but I'm always telling artists what they should do (since I can't do it myself LOL)

[VoxClamantis]

I've always been partial to Veni, Veni Emmanuel and Puer Natus in Bethlehem.

 

GOOD taste! Like most of us, I grew up hearing Veni, Veni Emmanuel, but I never heard Puer Natus in Bethlehem until I became a trad. The choir at my parish sang it and I asked the next week "What WAS that music???" I just had to know; it's so haunting...

 

Another haunting Christmastide song is the Coventry Carol about the slaughter of the Innocents. Very sad... (and very medieval-sounding!)

[mattc]

Thanks Matt for your reasonable and conciliatory response, which I had not yet seen when I wrote my second post--not that I retract anything I said about France-hating and Canada-hating warmongers, of whom I hope you are not a serious supporter.

The Canadian government, with its "hate speech" laws and gay "marriage," is of course ridiculous, but that would hardly justify war, and the United States is only a few steps behind...

 royalcello: No harm done. I was kidding about Canada and France, although I am definitely concerned about Canada's direction, including the examples you provided.
 
 I don't share your total disgust with Bush, but I do see many problems with our government and those advising (and funding) it.
 
 GregPotemkin: I wasn't suggesting that we should assume Bush is directed by God himself simply because he says so. Although, if a Catholic president were to speak in that way, and the content was based on valid Catholic teaching, I believe it would be worth taking seriously.
 
 Vox:  Your emphasis on 'medieval' is cracking me up.  Are you planning a real special Halloween? :-)
 
 -Matt-

[Archbishop_10K]

Last time I checked, the French were nearly universally anti-American, and to a greater extent than Americans are anti-French. I also believe it's a grave mistake to assume that America is all about "money and bombs". But if an American can really hate America enough to bash everything about it and never think about the positives, then I think he should move, since there are obviously much better places in the world to live........

[LeoXIII]

Last time I checked, the French were nearly universally anti-American, and to a greater extent than Americans are anti-French. I also believe it's a grave mistake to assume that America is all about "money and bombs". But if an American can really hate America enough to bash everything about it and never think about the positives, then I think he should move, since there are obviously much better places in the world to live........

 

I've always thought comments like these were simply ad hominum.

 

Because one can murder the people, destroy their communities or deport them but the truth is just something we can not escape. Even if everyone who was a critic of the US left, would it make the remaining people right or would they simply speak to each other what they agreed truths was?

 

There are certain positives about any country. Very few about their structures, especially those which are not Catholic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Archbishop_10K]

 

Last time I checked, the French were nearly universally anti-American, and to a greater extent than Americans are anti-French. I also believe it's a grave mistake to assume that America is all about "money and bombs". But if an American can really hate America enough to bash everything about it and never think about the positives, then I think he should move, since there are obviously much better places in the world to live........

 

I've always thought comments like these were simply ad hominum.

 

Because one can murder the people, destroy their communities or deport them but the truth is just something we can not escape. Even if everyone who was a critic of the US left, would it make the remaining people right or would they simply speak to each other what they agreed truths was?

 

There are certain positives about any country. Very few about their structures, especially those which are not Catholic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How is what I said different from a comment like: "if you don't like a celibate male priesthood and marriage being exclusively between a man and a woman, join the Episcopalians"?

 

A Catholic is not obligated to stay in Sodom. If I had as much anti-American sentiment as is reflected in some previous posts, I would decide to move and raise my children in a less scandalous environment, free from a country full of evangelical, war-mongering hicks (and especially here in Texas, which I imagine Royalcello dreads, lol). I believe a country is more than just a geographical boundary. In a way, each country has its own "creed", or basic set of beliefs. If I'm not comfortable with it, why support it with taxpayer money? Why support the beast?