Peace on Earth, Good will toward men??

[miss_fluffy]

Wow... what a misinterpretation

 

I just read in the Douay-rheims:

 

Luke 2:14

Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will.

[mattc]

Wow... what a misinterpretation

I just read in the Douay-rheims:

Luke 2:14

Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will.

 
  That's the same as the first line of the Gloria in the Angelus Missal.  What's the problem?
 

[DominusTecum]

She's pointing out (I think!) that the protestants have mistranslated that line in their KJV, from "Peace to men of good will" to a more universalist "Peace, good will to men," which is in keeping with their theology of a "universal body of believers."

 

 

[miss_fluffy]

My sweetie told me I was being too picky.
 
  But I think it says something about free will. The DR translation indicates that the angels prayed...  peace to men of good will rather than good will towards men.
 
  The latter implies that somehow men can be given good will, when good will vs bad will is a choice.
 
  Just some thoughts.  I've just recently picked up a  Douay-Rheims.  I've been comparing t to my KJV and am amazed at  how different the meanings are just by switching a couple words around  here and there.
 
 

[Reese]

My sweetie told me I was being too picky.
 
  But I think it says something about free will. The DR translation indicates that the angels prayed...  peace to men of good will rather than good will towards men.
 
  The latter implies that somehow men can be given good will, when good will vs bad will is a choice.
 
  Just some thoughts. I've just recently picked up a Douay-Rheims. I've  been comparing t to my KJV and am amazed at how different the meanings  are just by switching a couple words around here and there.
 
 

 
  Not being too picky Miss_Fluffy, not at all.  A difference of a  few words here and there changes the entire meaning of a  sentence. 
 

[Marisa]

I recommend this little booklet:

Which Bible Should You Read?

 

"Which Bible Should You Read? is a short, provocative analysis showing which is the most accurate, safest English translation of the Bible. Not so surprisingly, the Douay-Rheims traditional Catholic version of the Bible emerges from this analysis and comparison as the best, safest, most accurate Bible in English of the ten versions compared."

[lumengentleman]

 

Wow... what a misinterpretation

 

I just read in the Douay-rheims:

 

Luke 2:14

Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will.

 

You nailed it.  The angelic song means exactly that: peace to that particular class of men whose will is good, and whose intentions are right.  They are the souls who are the recipients of God's peace, because their righteous will is a precondition to peace.

 

The KJV and modern rendering removes this condition entirely, and makes all men the recipients of God's peace - in fact, it changes the meaning of "good will."  When we say "peace to men of good will," it's obvious we are talking about will as intention or volition; when we say "good will towards men," it sounds more like we're talking about a good feeling or attitude towards our fellow man.

 

The Protestant NIV translation butchers it even further: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests."  Nothing about man's volition or will at all!  In fact, now the text seems more to favor Calvin's extreme predestination views - peace to those whom God has already decided will be saved, without the will of man entering into the equation at all.

 

The Protestant ASV does much the same thing: "And on earth peace among men in whom he is well pleased."

 

Here's a breakdown of the various translations ...

 

New American Standard: "And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased."

 

American Standard: "And on earth peace among men in whom he is well pleased."

 

New King James: "And on earth peace, goodwill toward men."

 

King James: "and on earth peace, good will toward men."

 

New Revised Standard: "and on earth peace among those whom he favors."

 

Revised Standard: "and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased."

 

Douay-Rheims: "and on earth peace to men of good will."

 

New International Version: "and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests."

 

Pretty messy ...

 

[mattc]

Here's a breakdown of the various translations ...

New American Standard: "And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased."

 

American Standard: "And on earth peace among men in whom he is well pleased."

New King James: "And on earth peace, goodwill toward men."

King James: "and on earth peace, good will toward men."

New Revised Standard: "and on earth peace among those whom he favors."

Revised Standard: "and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased."

Douay-Rheims: "and on earth peace to men of good will."

New International Version: "and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests."

Pretty messy ...

 OK, let's see what Catholics have done with it...
 
 

 Douay-Rheims: "and on earth peace to men of good will."
 Confraternity (1941): "and on earth peace among men of good will."
 New American (1970): "and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests."
 
 

 Isn't that lovely?
 
 Perhaps the next Catholic version will be:
 
 Blasphemy: "and on earth peace to all men and women whom he/she adores."
 
 -Matt-
 

[lumengentleman]

Blasphemy: "and on earth peace to all men and women whom he/she adores."

-Matt-

Or, the Religiously Tolerant Version: "And on earth, a generally good and non-descript warmness to all who are basically in touch with a non-judgmental Presence Within, consciously or otherwise."

[AdoramusTeChriste]

The N.O. changed the Gloria along time ago:

 

Glory to God in the highest and peace to his people on earth.
Lord God, heavenly King, Almighty God and Father,

we worship you, we give you thanks, we praise you for your Glory.
Lord Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father,
Lord God, Lamb of God,
You who take away the sin of the world, have mercy on us.
You are seated at the right hand of the Father, receive our prayer.
For you alone are the Holy One, you alone are the Lord,
You alone are the Most High,
Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. Amen

 

Here is the Traditional prayer, which is omitted from the Mass during advent and  lent. From Fish Eaters website:

 

Glory be to God on high. And on earth peace to men of good will. We praise Thee. We bless Thee We adore Thee. We glorify Thee. We give Thee thanks for Thy great glory. Lord God, heavenly King, God the Father Almighty. Lord Jesus Christ [Bow head], Only-begotten Son, Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father. Thou Who takest away the sins of the world have mercy on us. Thou who takest away the sins of the world, receive our prayer. Thou Who sittest at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us. For Thou alone art holy. Thou alone, O Jesus Christ [Bow head], art most high. With the Holy Ghost, + in the glory of God the Father. Amen.

 

As I recall, the new form set to music is quite the theatrical production. I saw some of the new versions this morning while searching for the N.O. text- I cannot bring myself to post them.