BR v. LOTH.

[Credo]

       Ladies and gentleman, boys and girls, this is it! It is here you will find the thread where you can compare the traditional Breviaium Romanum to the Liturgy of the Hours.

       In corner one, we have the 10,000 lb gorilla, going by the name "The Breviary." He has been trained using hundreds of years of tradition. Brev, as he likes to be called, has finely honed his skills at the awkward-sounding gym of, "More Saints than the NO Can Hope to Pump Out in a Lifetime." It seems this tried and true, but complicated to understand, contestent is ready for the fight. The Breviary has trained hard, up to seven times a day in the weight-room.

       In the second corner, we have the new kid on the block, the Liturgy of the Hours. There has been some rumor that the LOTH has been using a steroid called, "Modernism." It is whispered that this spiritual narcotic had been given to many liturgical books over the last forty years. However, the LOTH's manager, Anibale "The Bug" Bugnini, has placed high hopes for his newcomer, dismissing such claims as trash-talk from, "nostalgic, whimsical hold-outs." Rumors has it, LOTH has been slacking-off, only training perhaps five times a day in the gym. All expect a knock-down, drag-out fight tonight.... 

[Paul]

Very funny. Although, given the number of canonisations of John Paul  II, "more saints than the NO can hope to pump out in a lifetime" isn't  quite true.
 
  Seriously, though, I would be interested in a comparison of the two.  The two are similar, and I know of the new four-week Psalter, but not  much else. I do think, though, that it's absolutely inexcusable that "A  Mighty Fortress is Our God", the hymn of the Reformation, has any place in Catholic liturgy. Modernism at work.
 
 

[piusx1914]

The Liturgy of the Hours is pathetic.  I know because I used it for several years before discovering the traditional Office. 

 

The things that bug me are:

 

1. It uses the Novus Ordo calendar which has been butchered.

2. The translations are terrible.  For example, the Benedictus and Magnificat are actually hard to say because most Catholics are so used to saying a traditional English form.

3. The psalter has been sanatized of the so-called "hate psalms". 

4. The idea of praying seven times to the Lord has been extinguished because the little hourse of Terce, Sext and None have been combined into one hour that can be said at anytime during the day.

5. Matins is called the Office of Readings which can be said at anytime during the day (so much for keeping vigil). 

6. I think the Grail Psalms of 1963, which the LOTH is based upon, is based on the Pius XII psalter of 1945.

7. Most of the Collects have been reworked so that the "intercesion" of the particular saint is no longer asked for, rather, it says something stupid like "may we follow his/her example" (not that this is a bad thing, but to my mind the intercesion of the saints has been severely supressed - also, this makes it possible for Protestants to pray the LOTH). 

 

Since I have not looked at the LOTH is quite a while these are just some of the things that come to mind.  I suppose somebody come up with a big laundry list if s/he spent some time digging into this.

[Paul]

You're right about ICEL's translations being horrible, both for the  Mass and Office. And I've noticed the edited psalms, too. Two of them  are missing - 68 and 103, I think.
 
  I don't see it as a big deal that Matins can be said at any time. It  makes sense in monasteries, but probably not for parish priests, nor  for the laity. Even before the Council, priests could anticipate Matins  and Lauds (after 1961, only Matins) after 2 PM, and I'm sure many of  them did so.
 

[piusx1914]

Paul,

 

You are right about Matins.  Being a working man, I don't get up at 3:00 a.m. to do a vigil.  When I say Matins I anticipate it as well.  I suppose it is just the principle of loosing its original purpose that bothered me. 

[Paul]

I agree, but if the only change were "say Matins anytime", with the  rest of the traditional Office intact, that wouldn't be so bad. And the  same goes for the Masses of the Triduum - but the 1955 changes go far  beyond merely changing the times.
 

[Credo]

       I just received a copy of the LOTH for Christmas. I suppose it was better than nothing, though not the ideal. I am like a drunk man stumbling around trying to find how it works. This is also the same for the Breviary too, both are complicated for the uninitiated. I understand that both are indeed liturgies, and so should not be tampered with. But can we on our own include the omitted psalms? When can we do this? How about avoiding intersessions which pray for the respect for all religions, etc.?  

[piusx1914]

       I just received a copy of the LOTH for Christmas. I suppose it was better than nothing, though not the ideal. I am like a drunk man stumbling around trying to find how it works. This is also the same for the Breviary too, both are complicated for the uninitiated. I understand that both are indeed liturgies, and so should not be tampered with. But can we on our own include the omitted psalms? When can we do this? How about avoiding intersessions which pray for the respect for all religions, etc.?  

Hi Credo,

 

I think you, as well as anybody else, will learn to love the cycle of prayer contained in the Divine Office.  If you are a Traditional Catholic who uses the pre '55 or 62 calendar, your biggest hurdle will be to make the feasts in the LOTH synch with these calendars.  If you are using the Novus Ordo calendar, there will be no problem. 

 

It is my understanding that those obliged to the Office must say everything according to the letter of the rubrics.  A layperson, however, is not bouind to the letter of the law.  This means that if you modify things a bit to make it more suitable for you, there will be no problem in doing so because you are not violating an obligation.

 

The LOTH is how I started and I have no regrets.  However, you will most likely grow out of them if you have strong traditional convictions.  If the LOTH was the only breviary I had available to me I would attempt to adapt it to the '62 calendar and then wait for the Baronius Press edition of the '61 Office to come out sometime in late '06.  To do this you could use the common of Saints and insert the '62 feast day into it rather than using the propper of saints that is specific to the Novus Ordo calendar.  You could also use the collect for the feast day from your traditional RC hand missal rather than the prayer in the LOTH.

 

In any case, I would not get too wrapped up in worrying about the details of breviary adaptation.  Just get your daily cycle of prayer going and then deal with some of these other issues once you get a handle on things.  I would pick Morning Prayer and Evening prayer and do those until you get them ironed out - then move on to the others.

 

I know that St. Joseph's makes a little paperback publication called the Liturgy of the Hours guide which will make your life much easier if you don't already have one.  They probably cost about $2.00

 

Good luck!

[Credo]

       Thank you for your suggestions. Eventually I hope to buy the SSPX two-volume Breviarium Romanum.

       A question I have is where is the Office of Readings supposed to go? From what I understand, the Invitory leads right into the Office of Reading, then it goes into Morning Prayer. Should I do the Invitory, then the readings, then Morning Prayer, back to back, when I awake?

[piusx1914]

       Thank you for your suggestions. Eventually I hope to buy the SSPX two-volume Breviarium Romanum.

       A question I have is where is the Office of Readings supposed to go? From what I understand, the Invitory leads right into the Office of Reading, then it goes into Morning Prayer. Should I do the Invitory, then the readings, then Morning Prayer, back to back, when I awake?

 

Credo,

 

It's been a while since I used the LOTH but I'll take a stab at your questions.  Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. 

 

The Invitory is used as the opening prayer for each of the hours.  Therefore you use the same prayer (Invitory) in the Morning Prayer as you do the Evening Prayer, Midday Prayer and etc.  The Office of Readings is equivalent to Matins in the traditional breviary.  In the LOTH the Office of Readings can be said at any time during the day.  If you get up early to go to work, doing the readings may be a bit much for the morning.

 

If it were me, I would do the Invitory and Morning Prayer when I awake and then do the readings some time later in the day or evening.  The reason the Office of Readings comes first is because that would be the traditional placement of Matins, however, it is not necessary, and probably not prudent, to say it in that order if your mornings are cramped.

 

Go to the following site and click the link "Using the Liturgy" in the upper left corner for more information.

 

http://www.universalis.com/-500/today.htm

 

Good luck!