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Author Topic: El Cid and La Reconquista  (Read 1203 times)
CampeadorShin
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Posts: 2,868



« on: February 21, 2006, 04:56:PM »

Does anyone know if El Cid was a mercenary for hire as some say, or a loyal Catholic fighter, who for some reason led muslim warriors and allied with muslim leaders against other muslims?  If the second thing is true and he was loyal, then why did he fight alongside muslims and for muslims against other muslims?
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TradCathYouth
The Sword That Smites Evil
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2006, 08:30:PM »

I've been wanting to ask a similar question for awhile, I just couldn't form the right words. Thanks for asking this, hopefully someone will answer it for the both of us.

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CampeadorShin
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2006, 12:50:PM »

anyone?
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Credo
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2006, 03:57:PM »

       I have done very little reading on El Cid. However, I remember getting the impression he just kind of fought wherever. Like he would wake-up one morning, stretch, and say, "Hmmmm, I feel like fighting those fellows over there." Of course this was on the History Channel, so it prob. is dead-wrong on this and all other things related to Christanity. If all the back-room deal between Muslims is true, then bravo for him. If your ememy is too busy fighting each other, it is looking good for you.

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Vincentius
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2006, 06:18:PM »

Quote from: CampeadorShin
Does anyone know if El Cid was a mercenary for hire as some say, or a loyal Catholic fighter, who for some reason led muslim warriors and allied with muslim leaders against other muslims?  If the second thing is true and he was loyal, then why did he fight alongside muslims and for muslims against other muslims?

I have three heroes:  Charlemagne, El Cid and Roland.  All of them Campeadores de los Reyes Cristianos (Heroes of the Catholic Kings of Spain).  They all fought the Moors in Spain and got rid of them.

There is a historical El Cid, and El Cid, a free booter and unprincipled adventurer, who thought nothing of plundering a Christian or a Moslem.  But we must look closely as who it is who tells these unfounded stories:  it is the Moslem, not the Christian.
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CampeadorShin
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Posts: 2,868



« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2006, 08:40:PM »

Gracias compatriota!  Conoces algun articulo que defiende a El Cid?  I mean he did fight alongside Muslims, but he fought alongside muslims against other muslims.  I never heard about him fighting Christians except for in the fighting to unite the seperated groups of Christians in spain. 
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TradCathYouth
The Sword That Smites Evil
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2006, 10:22:PM »

Did anyone see the El Cid movie with Charleton Heston in it? My favorite part was when they conquered Valencia not with swords or fists, but...BREAD!

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Vincentius
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2006, 10:36:PM »

Quote from: CampeadorShin
Gracias compatriota!  Conoces algun articulo que defiende a El Cid?  I mean he did fight alongside Muslims, but he fought alongside muslims against other muslims.  I never heard about him fighting Christians except for in the fighting to unite the seperated groups of Christians in spain.  

Hola, Campeador.  I haven't read anything about El Cid fighting alongside Muslims against Muslims (their own people, in medieval Spain, that is).  

Rodrigo (or Ruy) Diáz de Vivar, fought for King Alfonso VI of Castile in the eleventh century against the Moors.  There are conflicting stories about where his loyalties were.  One story says that he conquered Valencia and made himself king there where he lived until he died.  "El Cid" is a moorish title of respect, meaning "Lord" in Arabic (al sayid).  [So is my last name "Alcázar" -- in Arabic it means "castle" (al ksar)]

 Like the epic poem "The Song of Roland," there is also the epic "The Song of the Cid" (Poema del Cid or Cantar del Mio Cid), the story of Spain and her heroes.  If you can find the poem in Spanish, that will be a treasure since there are no extant copies.  

"LA CRONICA DE ESPANA"  (The story begins)
"Las quatro partes enteras de la Cronica de Espana, que mando componer el Serenissimo Rey Don Alonso llamado el sabio, donde se contienen los acontescimientos y hazanas mayores y mas senaladas que sucedieron en Espana, desde su primera poblacion hasta casi los tiempos del dicho senor Rey. Vista y emendada mucha parte de su impresion por el maestro Florian Docampo Cronista del emperador rey nuestro senor. Con previlegio imperial."

The following is the only place I know that has the complete "The Chronicle of El Cid":

http://www.hti.umich.edu/

Con permiso.

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Vincentius
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2006, 11:00:PM »

Chronology: Catholic Spain 410-1492
 
  551     Visigothic Kingdom of Toledo.
 
  572-86     Leovigild, King of Visigoths.
 
  587     Recared’s Conversion to Catholicism.
 
  570-636     St. Isidore of Seville.
 
  589       III Council of Toledo.  Catholicism declared the religion of the kingdom.
          [EDIT:  FILIOQUE added to the Creed --  was first sung in the Spanish             Church after the conversion of the Goths.]      
 
  649     Liber Judiciorum.
 
  711     End of Visigothic rule.  The Coming of Islam.
 
  721-25     Covadonga.  721. Pelayo en Cangas.
 
  739     Alfonso I, King of Asturias.
 
  755     Abd el Rahman I, independent emir.
 
  791     Alfonso II, King of Asturias in Oviedo.
 
  800     Ptolemy’s “Geography” translated in Arabic.
 
  801     Louis the Pious’ reconquest of Barcelona.
 
  830’s?     First mentions of the tomb of St. James in Compostela.
 
  850     Ordoño I, King of Asturias in Oviedo.  Beginning of repopulation.  Rise of the
       county of Castile.
 
  866     Alfonso III the Great, King of Asturias.
 
  929     Abd-al-Rahman proclaimed caliph, the caliphate of Cordoba.
 
  946     The county of Castile independent.
 
  978-1002    Al-Mansur.
 
  1031     End of Caliphate.  The kingdom of “taifas”.
 
  c. 1040      First examples of “Spanish” literature, “Las Jarchas”.
 
  c. 1043     Ruy Diaz Vivar, el Cid, is born.
 
  c. 1058     The “Usatges” of Barcelona.
 
  1072     Alfonso VI, King.
 
  1080     Council of Burgos - Mozarbic rites.  Cluny in Spain
 
  1085     Conquest of Toledo.
 
  1086     Invasion of Almoravids.
 
  1094     El Cid conquers Valencia.
 
  1099     Death of El Cid.
 
  1102     Almoravids take Valencia.
 
  1135     Alfonso VII - Emperor.
 
  1136     Invasion of Almohads.
 
  c. 1140    “ Poema del Mio Cid.”
 
  1162-96      Alfonso II, King of Aragon.
 
  1158-1214    Alfonso VIII, King of Castile.
 
  1188     First meeting of the Cortes of Castile.
 
  1195?-1264?    Gonzalo de Berceo.  “Libro de Alexandre.”
 
  1212     Las Navas de Tolosa.
 
  1217-1252    Fernando III, King of Castile and Leon.
 
  1236    Conquest of Cordoba.
 
  1241?    Romance version of “Liber Judiciorum.  “Fuero Juzgo.”
 
  1230s    “Libro de Apollonio.”
 
  1236    Lucas de Tuy’s “Crónica.”
 
  1248    Conquest of Seville.
 
  1252-1284    Alfonso X, the Wise.  “The Siete Partida.”
 
  1250s    “Poema de Fernán González.”
 
  1312-1350    Alfonso XI.
 
  c. 1335    Don Juan Manuel’s “Conde Lucanor.”
 
  c. 1350    Sem Tob, “Proverbios Morales.”
 
  1369    The Trastamaras in power.
 
  1400?    Expedition to the Canary Islands.
 
  1409    Sicily becomes part of the Crown of Aragon.
 
  1440    Civil War in Castile.  Alvaro de Luna.
 
  1442    Naples under Aragonese rule.
 
  c. 1445    Cancionero de Baena.
 
  1465    The farce of Avila.
 
  1469    Wedding of Ferdinand and Isabella.
 
  1474    Isabella I, Queen of Castile.
 
  1479    Ferdinand II, King of Aragón.
 
  1470s    “Coplas de Mingo Revulgo.”
 
  1473    First printing press in Spain.
 
  1476    Jorge Manrique’s “Coplas por la muerte de su padre.”
 
  1478    The new Inquisition in Castile.
 
  1484    The Inquisition in Aragon.
 
  1492    Surrender of Grenada.
 
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